Are those prices true?

[Davesaint]

You yanks want it all ways, don't you? You want stuff cheaper than the rest of the world, and you want it before the rest of the world. Guess what? Prices climbing to match what we pay isn't a violation of your divine rights. Welcome to our world, where things cost more than they're worth and we have to wait while other people get things before us.

That's BS. What we are upset at is by how much the price went up. Frankly I am suprised that you Brits didn't complain years ago about the discrepency in prices. To be honest, if the prices of the models went up a dollar or 2 across the board, I would have likely shruged it off. The fact is that there is a greater market of gamers by population in the US and a manufacturer knowing that there is a larger number of possible customers can afford to sell the product at a lower cost and make the profit up on volume. However, when the product being produced is of questionable quality, having people pay a significantly higher price is bad business.
All that will do is to chase new players away from the game.

Dave

 

[Sulfurdown]

That's why I would love to see counters. Personally I tend to use a lot of counters but am beginning to move into the model market. Reason being, I got suckered by the counters+game and now would love to own some pretty models to go with it! Under the "first set is free" model, the cost of models can be inflated a little easier then the "$100 cover charge". At least that's the impression I get.

Counters - the gateway tools

 

[sidewinder]

This is what happens when you let socialists run your country. We keep fighting it in the U.S. but theres too many stupid people here.

 

[Right Hand of God]

Davesaint, one of these days I will figure out how to use the quote function.....

until then.....

I did complain about the price rises in July, see
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29112&highlight=price

I didn't think the prices were justifiable then and I don't think they are justifiable now. As Greg said then, it is cheaper to buy your ACTA models from AoG than it is to buy them from Mongoose and as there stock was made when the moulds weren't so worn out the quality will be better.

ACTA was more expensive in the UK than the US but so what, the models are made in the states and shipped to the UK. That has got to add something to the cost for the UK customer, but I can't see why that should effect the cost in the US. There is no reason, in a global market why there should be parity, it doesn't make sense. Annoying as it is to those customers in counytries paying more for an item than it costs else where.

GW profits fell by several million in the last financial year. The company response was a price hike accross the board. From what I have seen that move has driven even more gamers away. There is only so much money to go around. `gaming is a hobby, it eats at our disposable income, it doesn't eat the money set aside for food, bills, the house, it just takes what we have spare. Now with these additional price rises people will have the choice of paying more for what they buy and buying less or shifting to a new game system. After the price rises in July I switched to buying FA scale ships. Works just as well and is nicer than counters.

 

[Ripple]

I really don't understand some of the arguments being made here.

Model is made in the US. Toss it in a truck and take it to a US distributor, second truck to shop. Relatively inexpensive.

Model made in US, truck to dock, dock to ship to foreign dock, new truck to local distributor, third truck to shop.

Why are we paying the same as the UK guys? To subsidize your shipping costs? Damn boys if I knew it was boat envy I'd have lent you mine. We yanks all have our own boats you know, cause we have the divine right to cheap stuff. Yup...it's god's gift.

Never mind the large market and favorable tax structure or cheaper local materials due to large stocks of natural resources (well at least those not currently being eaten by china).

- all sarcasm aside

- the product quality does not justify a premium price, whether poorly molded models, bad binding/covers or poorly worded rules.
- the economics of folks next to the factory paying the same as folks who have to have it shipped overseas seems strange.
- the sudden price increase of such dramatic levels indicates Mongoose needs a better marketing/pr guy.

The US dollar has lost value, no question, but if the model is being made here then your paying in US currency to produce it, and unless the manufacturer who is supplying Mongoose doubled their prices to Mongoose I find it hard to justify the jump.

I'm not getting double digit inflation in any other aspect of my consumer life right now...so don't claim inflation. Most of the stuff I buy is not made in the US either, so I find it hard to buy the dollar devaluation theory either. Is the majority of the market simply eating the loss? If so could there be a reason behind it?

I don't know the economics of the world real well. I studied journalism, city planning and psych. So if one of you econ prof's could come on and teach the short course I'd love it. Cause right now it feels as if I'm being asked to pay the costs of moving a product overseas and across an international border or two, when neither is actually happening. That's not us yanks wanting it all...that's just us Yanks wanting to only pay for what we actually get.

 

[Admiral Phlop]

The minitures are already manufactured in the States

If this is true then I guess we in the states are paying for the models to be shipped to the UK and then back to a distributor and then to a game store. Sounds like double shipping. Why not leave the product for the states in the states and send it out to the distributors here? The cost of some models that don't have the same amount of material as others of the same cost just doesn't seem fair. I love the game and will continue to buy models, I will have to be a little more discretionary with my hobby money.

 

[Taran]

So the miniatures are made in the USA?
OK, cool. Gotcha. But this tells me that the price-hike is pure money-grubbing, bad business by Mongoose.

Given: The models are made in the USA.

Given: The US Dollar has been devalued approx (let's assume hiffano's numbers are correct) 13.3% every year for 6 years.

Given: The company that owns the game just increased prices in the USA by approx 50% on several core models.

Given: Said company pays for the production of said models either in American dollars converted from non-American currency or in just plain non-American currency.

Given: When 1 Pound Sterling changes from being equivalent to $1.50 to more than $2.00 each Pound Sterling either buys more models or buys more Dollars which are then used to buy more models.


What was that I was being told about economics?

 

[Burger]

I wonder how long til this thread gets deleted :lol:
I guess 2 days.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I really don't understand some of the arguments being made here.

Model is made in the US. Toss it in a truck and take it to a US distributor, second truck to shop. Relatively inexpensive.

Model made in US, truck to dock, dock to ship to foreign dock, new truck to local distributor, third truck to shop.

Why are we paying the same as the UK guys?

I'll tell you.

If we 'toss' something into a truck and send it to a US distributor, we pay for that.

If we send it in a ship to Europe, the European distributor pays for that.

It costs us more to distribute models in the country of manufacture than it does anywhere else in the world. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

I wonder how long til this thread gets deleted :lol:
I guess 2 days.

Well, we are going to try to educate people first.

Aside from distribution issues in the States (which are so much less efficient than those in Europe), the devaluation of the Dollar has a _massive_ effect. If you are not seeing it in other areas of your life, it may not be too long. However, as a small UK based company, we have to take appropriate steps, or we may as well give the models away.

It is worth considering the following;

1. Distribution is more expensive in the US.
2. The principal sculptors for CTA are UK-based and want paying in Sterling, not Dollars.
3. When we started selling CTA models, we priced them _below_ the old AoG prices.
4. And then held them there for years.
5. During which time metal prices have shot through the roof - they are currently at an all time high.
6. Finally, most are missing the fact that some ships came _down_ in price. . .

 

[H]

I dunno how much you know of economics, but their is a thing called inflation, people get pay rises, matereals become more expensive, this has the result of making things on the whole more expensive EVERY year, maybe say, to the tune of $1.33.

I don't know how much you know of ecomimics...
But where I come from, 13.3% inflation is mighty high!

given that i was factoring in inflation AND other things, you kinda took it out of context Mr Maths Genius you tell me Petrol has only gone up by inflation... everything goes up by more.. except maybe your student loan..

anyhow, I think I have to accept that the Statesiders will refuse to consider the fact that the models were underpriced before, AND that the prices didn't go up year and year, and that my 3 trollkin longriders do have less metal, for more money than 2 BinTaks, and there are Quality differences because one is a fricking Bison, and the other is a spaceship, and last time I checked, their ain't no woolly spaceships. At the end of the day. Hmm, lets go look at BFG prices, oh my, a cruiser, $20, gosh.. a battleship, $30..holy crap... They are a similar prices, that must be wrong though as I'm being told they are way cheaper...

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I remember buying my Emperor and Retribution battleships for £12 each...

*feels nostalgic*

 

[Da Boss]

BFG and ACTA seem to be roughly similar in price - both in terms of the rules and ships - there are some odd variations in both games.........

Battleships are about £18.00
Battlecruisers about £12.00
Crusers about £7-10
Escorts / Frigates about £7 for 3

eg:
Space Marine Fleet
Space Marine Battle Barge£18.00
Space Marine Strike Cruiser£7.00
Firestorm Frigate (3 Models)£7.00
Space Marine Hunter Class Destroyer£3.00
Space Marine Gladius Class Frigate£3.00

ACTA

 

[Silvereye]

Still at least Mongoose are continuing to produce ACTA models GW announced that Specialist Games were no longer getting support and production of much of their model ranges were being reduced or stopped.

 

[Da Boss]

Oh I did not know that - must have a look thanks

 

[Ripple]

Fair enough, Matt.

Like I said, some of the attitude that about us yanks just being spoiled got under my skin. Can you explain why it costs more (at the end price) for US distribution? I am asking because I would think regardless of who pays for the move of the model, it still would be reflected in the end price. European or American, you or the distributor paying...it all has to get paid for somewhere. Are American distributors just making a bigger percentage per model?

As to the sculptors wanting to be paid in UK Sterling... No question, but how big a percentage of a models price goes to the sculptor. I ask cause in most artistic stuff I've been involved in the creator gets very little percentage of a works product price.

Metal has gotten very expensive. Copper wire has simply gotten stupidly expensive. If that is a major component of the change, no issue there...but that was not the argument being thrown in our faces by some.

I was aware of the AoG price scenario. I believed it had to do with not paying for some of the design, mold production, etc costs. If it was a marketing model rather than a cost saving past on, I apologize to you and the company on that score. It did you a world of service, I would simply have factored in that a gradual increase in price over a couple of years would have been better received in the US market than a large jump.

The fact that some came down in price actually fueled the fire in my local area. It implied that the cost could not actually be based in relative currency strength or shipping or even metal cost but had to be a marketing strategy. Similar in some ways to paying premium prices for needed figures from other companies. If we had seen just an across the board increase of an even amount we would have said there is our administration shooting us in the foot with bad monetary policy and Mongoose hitting us with it all at once rather than letting us ease into it.

Finally, no question this thread (and myself specifically) have gotten a bit heated. I DO need some education on what exactly is going on that would cause such a dramatic price jump on so many models. The specifics of the situation may not be something you want to discuss with us, and that's of course you perogative, but with a jump this big some details would have been nice or perhaps some warning that it was going to be this big.

I do feel that there are some issues with the product that I don't see with some of the other material hanging on the wall at my local game store and that price has gone quite a bit above those items. Some of them are older stuff though so maybe it's a case of the newest material will all be more expensive. I'll wait a bit and see if this is an industry wide price level change.

Again...sorry for the tone of some posts, as there are certainly good reasons for some price increase. The scale of the change, and the screw you americans attitude of some posters has frankly made me mad enough that I'm taking some it out on the company when its really directed at them.

It doesn't help that the same price levels in GW products that have been complained about for years are now being trotted out as a justification for these prices being just fine.

Any who...thank you Matt for the response...and sorry if I'm getting under your skin. As far as the company goes I just want to understand why this large increase, so I can make my buying decisions based not just on price, but on an understanding of the company that I'd be supporting.

Ripple

 

[animus]

As another Yank, I also wondered at the huge price leap. But more than that, I've watched the other games in my area. Maybe Matt's right that I'll see the Kiwi's bump up FoW greatly or GW do more than their usual bloodletting but that doesn't change the fact that I don't know a single store in the two states I call home who carry miniatures for this game - and I know a lot of stores. Getting players interested is impossible. I found it myself from a round-about path. How can I get others to invest in the game when other companies have better molds, more active followers and now much better prices? B5's been off the air for many a moon and my extraordinarily brilliant painting and gaming modesty only goes so far.

I guess what I'm saying is that I want ACTA to succeed and just worry that these prices will make it even less likely that it will over here. We might just be an ex-colony, but there are a lot of us gamers here.

 

[eldiablito]

As a big fan of Babylon 5, I was always upset that no one would get into the ship game with me. I needed opponents and no one at my local stores were willing to let go of the big GW games.

Well, that has changed now and I'm really happy that, at this narrow window when other game publishers are trying out good systems, those old GW-only players are interested in trying out something else. Mongoose, I'm happy as a clam that you released this game, when you did!

Unfortunately, some gamers are not so happy about the price. Yeah, yeah yeah, some of the complainers on this forum want to turn this into an Anti-American thread, but many of these people, who I try to convince to play B5 with me get scared of the price. They can buy a different model, from a different game system for less. Worse still, some gamers worry that this system my go the way of Lot5R and they don't want to worry about getting left with unusable models. I can see the problem from their eyes. Since Babylon 5 (as a TV series) is forgotten by younger gamers, it is hard to drum up interest, and with the relatively high prices, it is even harder to get someone interested, to actually buy.

 

[Taran]

Thank you for that info, Msprange.

Let me see if I got it right:

1)Mongoose pays for shipping to distributors in the USA but not in Europe, so there is an additional distribution cost here that there isn't in Europe.

2)the modelers want paid in Pounds Sterling. Ok. So what? Unless they have gotten significant raises, I don't see how this factors into a price increase of the kind being discussed here.

3)+4) Being better gamers than businessmen, Mongoose kept the prices on the models lower than they really should have and probably racked up a significant total loss (or insufficient gain) on them. That's a biggie. I appreciate the effort, but it was rather silly.

5) Materials costs have gone up even while shipping costs (in the USA) have gone down, the latter due to the devaluation of the American Dollar. Sounds to me like a break-even proposition unless you are buying the materials outside the USA with Pounds Sterling. Might be something they would want to look into.
Also, maybe changing the contracts with the American distributors and making Them pay for shipping would be worth a look.

6) Some ships came down in price. Don't know how many or how much. So I can't really say what kind of effect this has on the total calculation.


So, to wrap it up, Mongoose got silly when they introduced the game and started with prices too low to maintain and then tried to maintain them. And now... Ummm. I don't get it, though. Not getting much more, considering the drop in value of the Dollar by raising the American price. Just seem to be maintaining where you're at, considering materials costs, etc...


Anyway, snippyness in prior posts notwithstanding (and being directed at certain holier than thou attitudes from certain other posters rather than at you or Mongoose), my position is and always has been that a business exists for one and Only 1 purpose: To make money.
So as long as you continue to make money, and thus stay in business, and also continue to provide a product and/or service I need or desire, you'll get my money.

I desire Babylon 5: A Call to Arms models and rulebooks. Gimme.

 

[MongooseMatt]

So, to wrap it up, Mongoose got silly when they introduced the game and started with prices too low to maintain and then tried to maintain them. And now... Ummm. I don't get it, though. Not getting much more, considering the drop in value of the Dollar by raising the American price. Just seem to be maintaining where you're at, considering materials costs, etc...

Well. . . no. . .

We kept the prices low as long as we reasonably could. But there comes a time when, due to changes in distribution and, yes, the crashing Dollar, that then no longer becomes viable.

So we change.

We also have an interest in creating price parity across our entire range of books and miniatures. We started with A Call to Arms.