Are the EFTF getting stuffed?

[cordas]

well 2 warriors V a type 99 will win. a type 99 needs a 7 to hit with 1 dice if enemy are in open, while the warriors between them are pelting out 8D10 per turn and need 8s and will play the long game rather than the single lucky hit game, you kill a warrioe there are still another 4D10 comming in.

2 warriors and a comamnd section is 425 points and will wack out 10D10 per turn compared to a single dice that if gets above average will kill but reduce enemy to 6D10 per turn, thing is the the warriors need averages and a few luckies to take out the tank in one turn while the tank gets one chance and needs a above average roll, per turn, longer it takes the bigger risk of tank going bang.

now multiply the tanks and Warriors and you suddenly get warriors ganging up on the tanks taking one out per turn with mass fire and loosing the odd warrior.

Some dodgy maths there Mr E. Points wise 2 Warriors = 1 Type 99, no points spare for that magical command squad. A taget shot off a 99 is generaly going to take off 1 hit, and just under 1 in 3 is going to kill. The Warrior needs to roll 8s (assuming both in open) to get a hit and then its a 50/50 if it takes off a wound, 2 warriors both in the open firing 10AD (4 each + 2 in reaction assuming it hasn't been killed) are going to score on average just over 1 target score per turn which has a 50/50 of taking a hit off the type 99.

That means its going to take using averages just under 8 rounds to kill the type 99 (with fire from both), whilst it is going to take the 99 6 rounds to kill both warriors (ignoring taking off hits). Add in the fact that 1 Warrior is going to buy it by the 3rd turn reducing firepower from 10 to 6, making the maths harder than I care to work out, but I think my point is made.

 

[tneva82]

The only Anti-Air we possibly have in the future is the Future Lynx if it comes with an AA weapon.

You seem to assume they stop releasing units to EFTF very quickly...Why?

We don't KNOW the full release schedelude. Heck I wonder if Mongoose knows the full release schedelude yet either...

With EFTF being composed of multiple nations somewhat slow release schedelude for them is to be expected anyway with 1 unit/month schedelude.

 

[Gibbs]

Some dodgy maths there Mr E. Points wise 2 Warriors = 1 Type 99, no points spare for that magical command squad. A taget shot off a 99 is generaly going to take off 1 hit, and just under 1 in 3 is going to kill. The Warrior needs to roll 8s (assuming both in open) to get a hit and then its a 50/50 if it takes off a wound, 2 warriors both in the open firing 10AD (4 each + 2 in reaction assuming it hasn't been killed) are going to score on average just over 1 target score per turn which has a 50/50 of taking a hit off the type 99.

That means its going to take using averages just under 8 rounds to kill the type 99 (with fire from both), whilst it is going to take the 99 6 rounds to kill both warriors (ignoring taking off hits). Add in the fact that 1 Warrior is going to buy it by the 3rd turn reducing firepower from 10 to 6, making the maths harder than I care to work out, but I think my point is made.

It's worse than that, warriors aren't allowed to react (see the armoured rule on the warrior sheet).

 

[Mr Evil]

well 2 warriors V a type 99 will win. a type 99 needs a 7 to hit with 1 dice if enemy are in open, while the warriors between them are pelting out 8D10 per turn and need 8s and will play the long game rather than the single lucky hit game, you kill a warrioe there are still another 4D10 comming in.

2 warriors and a comamnd section is 425 points and will wack out 10D10 per turn compared to a single dice that if gets above average will kill but reduce enemy to 6D10 per turn, thing is the the warriors need averages and a few luckies to take out the tank in one turn while the tank gets one chance and needs a above average roll, per turn, longer it takes the bigger risk of tank going bang.

now multiply the tanks and Warriors and you suddenly get warriors ganging up on the tanks taking one out per turn with mass fire and loosing the odd warrior.

Some dodgy maths there Mr E. Points wise 2 Warriors = 1 Type 99, no points spare for that magical command squad. A taget shot off a 99 is generaly going to take off 1 hit, and just under 1 in 3 is going to kill. The Warrior needs to roll 8s (assuming both in open) to get a hit and then its a 50/50 if it takes off a wound, 2 warriors both in the open firing 10AD (4 each + 2 in reaction assuming it hasn't been killed) are going to score on average just over 1 target score per turn which has a 50/50 of taking a hit off the type 99.

That means its going to take using averages just under 8 rounds to kill the type 99 (with fire from both), whilst it is going to take the 99 6 rounds to kill both warriors (ignoring taking off hits). Add in the fact that 1 Warrior is going to buy it by the 3rd turn reducing firepower from 10 to 6, making the maths harder than I care to work out, but I think my point is made.

in my exsperiance if your relying on a single dice you will be let down, and in mobile games we have played we have found the Warrior to be a better tank killer than the Chally, like matt has said befor you havnt played this game till you play 6k, we are playing around 4k at the mo and tank power is reduced by this size and mass warriors rule over most stuff.

perfect army would be nothing but warriors and shadows.

 

[Gibbs]

in my exsperiance if your relying on a single dice you will be let down, and in mobile games we have played we have found the Warrior to be a better tank killer than the Chally, like matt has said befor you havnt played this game till you play 6k, we are playing around 4k at the mo and tank power is reduced by this size and mass warriors rule over most stuff.

perfect army would be nothing but warriors and shadows.

We played a 3,000 pt aside battle and the Technicals and shadows dominated the battlefield (sadly enough they were on the same side). Shadows can take out hull down type 99s and distract the challys, technicals mow down mass number of troops, magical :twisted:

 

[Mr Evil]

PLA Fav is the supreme leader in infantry killing ability, makes a total mess of infantry, suported by the APC and its a nice piece of kit, i think its not anti air and its not anti tank the brits are missing out on, its a fast assualt option, in a way the helis will sorta do that, but still would be nice to have some panthers or landrovers.

 

[Gibbs]

PLA Fav is the supreme leader in infantry killing ability, makes a total mess of infantry, suported by the APC and its a nice piece of kit, i think its not anti air and its not anti tank the brits are missing out on, its a fast assualt option, in a way the helis will sorta do that, but still would be nice to have some panthers or landrovers.

That's true but the shadow/technical is a good combo too. :wink:

 

[Mr Evil]

PLA Fav is the supreme leader in infantry killing ability, makes a total mess of infantry, suported by the APC and its a nice piece of kit, i think its not anti air and its not anti tank the brits are missing out on, its a fast assualt option, in a way the helis will sorta do that, but still would be nice to have some panthers or landrovers.

That's true but the shadow/technical is a good combo too. :wink:

Good ? damn evil yet fun to play.

i think fast units are the most fun toplay, i realy wish the brits had some.

 

[Gibbs]

i think fast units are the most fun toplay, i realy wish the brits had some.

Roger that! Bring on the landies!

Oh and don't ask for a justification for the technical/shadow combo, just accept it :wink:

 

[tneva82]

perfect army would be nothing but warriors and shadows.

Damn...Didn't know BF:Evo was that bad...

 

[Gibbs]

perfect army would be nothing but warriors and shadows.

Damn...Didn't know BF:Evo was that bad...

It isn't; evil was just talking about swarming tactics. BF:Evo is a great game. The warrior and the shadows are a deadly combination but they are beatable. Enough feds and they'll go down quickly enough.

It's actually a really good game. Very tactically demanding.

 

[Templar]

Not to argue, but it was stated that there are concerns with the current releases and not those in 1-2 years time...

That being said, from every battle I have thus seen, the EFTF has dominated. Keeping a tank in cover is easy - thus, killing a chally is the last thing anyone ever tries - instead, go kill infantry and hit the shatter. However, the same doesn't happen with the abrams, or Type 99. So essentially, that chally is popping things left and right from a position of near invulnerability.

Thus far, the EFTF has been getting the most love at releases (ie, best tank, only command squad thus far, most versatile transport, and now possible variants for it - with no printed "try these out" variants of the technicals, shadows, or IFV).

Air dominance is going to be the next thing, but with point restrictions on how much air you can actually take, I don't think it is going to be the bread and butter of the game - useful, but not everything.

Besides, we don't know what will happen with new releases until we see the cards and units, and we see how they actually affect the game itself.

The EFTF are a muscle army. The Marines are a tech army. The MEA are a horde army. And the PLA - they can somewhat do everything, they just can't do it to the extent of the other armies.

So, in conclusion - NO MORE WHINING FROM THE EFTF PLAYERS - YOU GET SHOT FROM THE AIR AND YOU LEARN TO LIKE IT! (jk)

 

[Gibbs]

Good summary Templar

Choppers will probably will be cheap enough to use maybe two in a small size engagement... unless it's an Apache, then you'll get it and that's all.

So, in conclusion - NO MORE WHINING FROM THE EFTF PLAYERS - YOU GET SHOT FROM THE AIR AND YOU LEARN TO LIKE IT! (jk)

:lol:
Remember you hover you die. Take that 140mm round and you'll like it :wink:

 

[tiepilot1138]

Good summary Templar

Choppers will probably will be cheap enough to use maybe two in a small size engagement... unless it's an Apache, then you'll get it and that's all.

So, in conclusion - NO MORE WHINING FROM THE EFTF PLAYERS - YOU GET SHOT FROM THE AIR AND YOU LEARN TO LIKE IT! (jk)

:lol:
Remember you hover you die. Take that 140mm round and you'll like it :wink:

I thought I saw somewhere that you could only take 1 air unit per every XXX points. If that's the case, you probably can only take 1 in a small battle...

 

[Gibbs]

Good summary Templar

Choppers will probably will be cheap enough to use maybe two in a small size engagement... unless it's an Apache, then you'll get it and that's all.

So, in conclusion - NO MORE WHINING FROM THE EFTF PLAYERS - YOU GET SHOT FROM THE AIR AND YOU LEARN TO LIKE IT! (jk)

:lol:
Remember you hover you die. Take that 140mm round and you'll like it :wink:

I thought I saw somewhere that you could only take 1 air unit per every XXX points. If that's the case, you probably can only take 1 in a small battle...

By small size engagement I mean 2,000 pts, remember we're going up to 6,000 pts! :wink:

 

[Mr Evil]

well it tends to be 1 unit for every 1500 points, thing is you take that you loose out on somthing else, you take AA gear and your oponent doesnt take any air, thats waisted points as well.


as for unit costs well a super cobra will possably set you back around 350 points plus, while aircraft around 400 points plus, and its hard to hide air power from ground pounders.

air will change things a bit but wont be the be all and end all we found.

 

[cordas]

The only Anti-Air we possibly have in the future is the Future Lynx if it comes with an AA weapon.

You seem to assume they stop releasing units to EFTF very quickly...Why?

We don't KNOW the full release schedelude. Heck I wonder if Mongoose knows the full release schedelude yet either...

With EFTF being composed of multiple nations somewhat slow release schedelude for them is to be expected anyway with 1 unit/month schedelude.

Please read my posts, I am talking about future slated releases.

 

[cordas]

well 2 warriors V a type 99 will win. a type 99 needs a 7 to hit with 1 dice if enemy are in open, while the warriors between them are pelting out 8D10 per turn and need 8s and will play the long game rather than the single lucky hit game, you kill a warrioe there are still another 4D10 comming in.

2 warriors and a comamnd section is 425 points and will wack out 10D10 per turn compared to a single dice that if gets above average will kill but reduce enemy to 6D10 per turn, thing is the the warriors need averages and a few luckies to take out the tank in one turn while the tank gets one chance and needs a above average roll, per turn, longer it takes the bigger risk of tank going bang.

now multiply the tanks and Warriors and you suddenly get warriors ganging up on the tanks taking one out per turn with mass fire and loosing the odd warrior.

Some dodgy maths there Mr E. Points wise 2 Warriors = 1 Type 99, no points spare for that magical command squad. A taget shot off a 99 is generaly going to take off 1 hit, and just under 1 in 3 is going to kill. The Warrior needs to roll 8s (assuming both in open) to get a hit and then its a 50/50 if it takes off a wound, 2 warriors both in the open firing 10AD (4 each + 2 in reaction assuming it hasn't been killed) are going to score on average just over 1 target score per turn which has a 50/50 of taking a hit off the type 99.

That means its going to take using averages just under 8 rounds to kill the type 99 (with fire from both), whilst it is going to take the 99 6 rounds to kill both warriors (ignoring taking off hits). Add in the fact that 1 Warrior is going to buy it by the 3rd turn reducing firepower from 10 to 6, making the maths harder than I care to work out, but I think my point is made.

in my exsperiance if your relying on a single dice you will be let down, and in mobile games we have played we have found the Warrior to be a better tank killer than the Chally, like matt has said befor you havnt played this game till you play 6k, we are playing around 4k at the mo and tank power is reduced by this size and mass warriors rule over most stuff.

perfect army would be nothing but warriors and shadows.

I am sorry you can't make an arguement based on maths and stats, and then when your proved wrong :wink: just say well I never rely on single dice rolling :roll:

 

[Mr Evil]

the math i got wrong was the command bit wich on the pla i thought i ommited, but it must have stayed in when i hit post topic, simple mistake, i still hold that weight of fire is better than single hits, warriors do whatever they shoot at well, while a chally main gun can be over kill at times. its easier to hide 2 warriors from a chally than a chally from 2 warriors, and against the chally you get the command squad ! id rather have 2 warriros and a comand section than a chally any day.

but the point of this topic is saying the EFTF has no anti tank, would you rather a gun that shoots 40" 2D10 per action or a man portable rocket launcher that shoots 20" 1D10+2 once per turn ? id say the warrior gun was a more effective anti tank weapon than the icle rocket launcher the pla have. the warrior is an amazing peice of kit, its anti infantry and anti tank, it has more fire power than most infantry units in the game and if used well can survive alot of punishment, in the tourney we had 3 warriors on our team not a single one took any damage all tourney, and yet they eliminated an awful lot of stuff, evan against forces containing 2 challys..

As for anti air defence, bar the typhoon intercepter multi role air craft eftf are getting, who knows what this time next year will be on the schedule, as it is there is plans in the MOD for a either a new unit or an upgrade, so maybe mongoose are waiting for that desission, as it would be silly to make a unit that is in a few months time possably going to be obsolite, launched for a game system based on 15 years time.


PS Warriors rock

 

[127th Angry Angels]

I can understand you wanting dedicated AT and AA teams as they exist today and they won't be replaced within 15 years as such. I can understand asking the question about what Europeans will be getting in terms of AT and AA but to question if we're getting "stuffed" without the air rules or the stats for the confirmed units is futile.

Also, with respect, it's not something you can very well change at this point. I also like to think that since MGP have playtested to wave 10 or so they will have these issues licked in the balance of the game. The other point i feel needs making is that sometimes things aren't just about the stats. That's why we play these games. It still requires strategy and luck to get the win.

Sorry to rant but there seems to have been a alot of threads recently arguing about units that are not around, rules they havn't seen etc and it gets no one anywhere and upsets other forum users.