Arclight Weapons

[RebornTheFallen]

Arclight weapons are about the meanest melee weapons in the game, we all know this. But I think they could/should be meaner than they're described, however, I'll need some confirmation.

First, a question. The write ups on these weapons say they cannot be parried save for by other arc-field weapons. that's all well and good, but I request two answers. A. If someone is being attacked by an arc field weapon, say a sudden suprise attack, they should need an intel roll to realize what it is and react accordingly, that is to say, dodge vs. parry. Discuss. B. If someone IS attacked and DOES try to parry, what happens to the blocking weapon? Does the arc field just pass through it, leaving it unharmed, or does it actually cut it, similar to the effects of a star wars lightsaber?

Secondly, Melee weapons are not listed as having any AP value. However, if arc field weapons cannot be parried, I propose that they should be treated as at LEAST semi-ap weapons, if not full AP. Opinions?

Edit: This is a discussion, people. I'm seeing a lot of views, but no responses! Talk to me!

 

[EDG]

What book are they from?

 

[RebornTheFallen]

Central Supply Catelogue. I don't have the exact page numbers on me, as I don't actually have the books. they belong to our DM.

 

[andrew boulton]

Ick. :roll:

Hadn't spotted them before. They certainly don't belong in Traveller (same goes for the chainsword...) Impossible to discuss unless you can plausibly explain them.

 

[The Chef]

well chainswords and arc weapons are presented in the CSC and so are part of Mongoose Traveller, though as it plainly says in the front of the book these bits are optional.

as for Arc weapons are they not for want of a better discription, "lightsabers", i.e. energy weapons harnessed in a controlled field so they can be directed as a melee weapon.

in that case, and please correct me if i am wrong, then if someone did try and parry one of them, say with an iron bar, then it would slice cleanly through said bar?? i think thats what is implied by the "cannot be parried except by another arc weapon"?

personally is someone is caught totally by surprise i may as a GM give them a dodge roll, but i doubt they would have time to parry... then again this is wholly GM dependant, other GM's may decree that as a surprise attack then the attacker gets to attack without the attackee being able to defend at all.

as for AP i'm not sure, i'd love the idea of this weapon being able to defeat everything the game has defence wise, except for another Arc weapon, but not sure if that completely disrupts the balance of the game, hence again why these weapons are wholey and soley optional.

personally speaking, as someone who grew up outside of the OTU i love this concept!

so to sum up, if i was your GM and someone attacked you with an arc weapon,

situation A; you are surprised: if i was being kind i may allow you an int to dodge if not then hit with lots of bonuses

situation B; you parry using a non arc something: it is cleanly scythed and you better pray your armour can take the hit

AP: again not sure, as your GM i would allow armour saves, but there would be strong arguments against this (see parrying above)

Chef

 

[alex_greene]

If your characters have never encountered an arc field weapon before, and the players haven't even seen a copy of CSC yet, then let an NPC have it first. Let the characters stumble upon the body, cleaved neatly in twain, and a large and heavy object nearby such as a console lying in two pieces with a straight edged slice cut into the solid metal framework.

Elsewhere they could encounter a freshly-cut bulkhead, and hear a distinctive sound well beforehand, followed by the sound of the metal being sliced through.

That way, you can make them aware of the fact that somebody has a weapon that can cut through solid metal: so what it can do to armour, even Battle Dress, scarcely bears imagining.

After a couple of such warnings, finally let them encounter the armed alien. The alien brandishes the weapon; the arc light flickers on; they hear that distinctive sound; they don't need an Int roll to guess that here is the weapon that has been causing all those NPCs so much trouble.

And they're next.

 

[RebornTheFallen]

I think I may have been a little unclear. The whole suprise situation idea is based on the fact that if someone sees a melee weapon coming at them, and they are holding a melee weapon themselves and are proficient in the use of it, that their first instinct is to block. I would propose an intellect save for the split-second thought process of, "That's an arc-field weapon, so this likkle knife here isn't gonna do the job!" If they fail the intellect save, they actually do attempt to parry with the knife, to whatever gruesome end that may lead them.

 

[silburnl]

I think I may have been a little unclear. The whole suprise situation idea is based on the fact that if someone sees a melee weapon coming at them, and they are holding a melee weapon themselves and are proficient in the use of it, that their first instinct is to block.

My emphasis. If the defender in this scenario gained their proficiency where arc weapons are a known part of their threat environment, then they will have trained to dodge rather than block as their instinctive, 'muscle memory' reaction.

If not, then not.

Also, if an arc weapon can be blocked by another arc weapon then I would expect 'arc armour' to make an appearance not long after arc weapons appear on the scene.

Regards
Luke

 

[EDG]

They certainly don't belong in the OTU

I corrected your post for you.
Even then, I'm sure some distant corner of the OTU could at least have chainsword wielding nutbags

 

[RebornTheFallen]

I think I may have been a little unclear. The whole suprise situation idea is based on the fact that if someone sees a melee weapon coming at them, and they are holding a melee weapon themselves and are proficient in the use of it, that their first instinct is to block.

My emphasis. If the defender in this scenario gained their proficiency where arc weapons are a known part of their threat environment, then they will have trained to dodge rather than block as their instinctive, 'muscle memory' reaction.

If not, then not.

Also, if an arc weapon can be blocked by another arc weapon then I would expect 'arc armour' to make an appearance not long after arc weapons appear on the scene.

Regards
Luke

Alright, that I can understand. If arc weapons are a known threat, they might have a more instinctive reaction. I was just thinking that a roll might be required to realize that they're being attacked with an arc-field weapon. I mean, they're TL 13-ish (I know for a fact that the axe my character is after is TL 14, but I'm not sure about the sword he currently has)...not exactly common. I suppose it would be up to the GM. However, as far as armor is concerned, that's what I'm trying to figure out. Does conventional armor have any effect against arc-field weapons? Or, better phrased, do arc field weapons have any armor-penetrating value? Arc armor...not a bad idea, if conventional armor falls short. Or at least an augmentation that would offer better protection...

 

[Colin]

Ick. :roll:

Hadn't spotted them before. They certainly don't belong in Traveller (same goes for the chainsword...) Impossible to discuss unless you can plausibly explain them.

While I agree that they don't belong in an OTU campaign (unless you really want them...), they can certainly be part of a space-opera-style game played with Mongoose Traveller rules.

And I don't know that anti-gravity, artificial gravity, jump drives, psionics, meson guns, dimensional foldings and other trappings of Traveller (and the OTU) can be plausibly explained without a great deal of arm-waving either.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

There is an Arc-Shield. I would expect that Arc-Shielded BattleDress wouldn't take long to develop once the technology was out there. Look at the TL progression on the weapons and extrapolate.

My opinion: Arc-Field weapons treat any armored opponent as if they were unarmored. It treats armor like it does everything else, something to cut through.

I think of them like Light Sabres.

Forcefields and Arc-Shields are the defense against them.

Once these weapons are introduced, the instinctive reaction will be to DODGE rather than to try an PARRY. I might even go as far as to require a separate skill for Melee (Arc-Field) because a lot of the techniques used in "modern" swordfighting would not work with Arc-Field weapons. There is no such thing as a minor wound from an Arc-Field weapon. Also the heft will be very different (none) compared to even a dagger, so control would be an issue too. Yep, Melee (Arc-Field) is the way to go.

 

[andrew boulton]

They certainly don't belong in the OTU

I corrected your post for you.
Even then, I'm sure some distant corner of the OTU could at least have chainsword wielding nutbags

Nope, even the non-OTU stuff in FF&S tried to at least make sense.

 

[RebornTheFallen]

There is an Arc-Shield. I would expect that Arc-Shielded BattleDress wouldn't take long to develop once the technology was out there. Look at the TL progression on the weapons and extrapolate.

My opinion: Arc-Field weapons treat any armored opponent as if they were unarmored. It treats armor like it does everything else, something to cut through.

I think of them like Light Sabres.

Forcefields and Arc-Shields are the defense against them.

Once these weapons are introduced, the instinctive reaction will be to DODGE rather than to try an PARRY. I might even go as far as to require a separate skill for Melee (Arc-Field) because a lot of the techniques used in "modern" swordfighting would not work with Arc-Field weapons. There is no such thing as a minor wound from an Arc-Field weapon. Also the heft will be very different (none) compared to even a dagger, so control would be an issue too. Yep, Melee (Arc-Field) is the way to go.

I agree on how to treat the armor, but I'm not sure that it would require a seperate skill. The book describes the blade as a dense weave of fibers with energy running through them, not a directed energy field. In that regard, I would think the would have the same heft as a sword, if not higher.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Arclight weapons

Hmmm... *goes and reads entry* dang. missed that. Wished those were OGL. Oh well...

A. If someone is being attacked by an arc field weapon, say a sudden suprise attack, they should need an intel roll to realize what it is and react accordingly, that is to say, dodge vs. parry. Discuss.
B. If someone IS attacked and DOES try to parry, what happens to the blocking weapon? Does the arc field just pass through it, leaving it unharmed, or does it actually cut it, similar to the effects of a star wars lightsaber?

A. You're surprised. But lets ignore that part. Its a weapon of pure energy and some fibers. I'd say that anyone can expect to have their sword cut in two if they tried to parry it. No check required unless your INT is 5 or less.
B. If it were my table: it slices through. Sorry, you're the person that put your weapon in the way of a weapon of pure energy. You deserve to lose it.

Secondly, Melee weapons are not listed as having any AP value. However, if arc field weapons cannot be parried, I propose that they should be treated as at LEAST semi-ap weapons, if not full AP. Opinions?

IMO No AP. The blade cuts through the armor before cutting through you. So if you had on something that could soak 10 points of damage, that's 10 less that you'd take. But then you don't have that armor anymore. Its cut in two until you can get it fixed for real (not a little patch job during combat).

 

[RebornTheFallen]

IMO No AP. The blade cuts through the armor before cutting through you. So if you had on something that could soak 10 points of damage, that's 10 less that you'd take. But then you don't have that armor anymore. Its cut in two until you can get it fixed for real (not a little patch job during combat).

Hmmm...true. high tech armor and such is self-repairing for small things like bullet holes, but for huge gashes...huh, alright, I can get behind that.

 

[EDG]

Nope, even the non-OTU stuff in FF&S tried to at least make sense.

*psst. This isn't FF&S*

I think everyone's lives would be a lot easier if people just accepted that Mongoose are not doing the same things or in the same way that other people have done before.

The game's been out for what, two years now, and some folks (yourself included, based on your previous comment) apparently still can't seem to move beyond the fact that "Traveller" is not just the OTU anymore.

 

[andrew boulton]

I think everyone's lives would be a lot easier if people just accepted that Mongoose are not doing the same things or in the same way that other people have done before.

Different is fine. It's stupid I have a problem with.

 

[Infojunky]

Nope, even the non-OTU stuff in FF&S tried to at least make sense.

*psst. This isn't FF&S*

Heh ain't that the truth....

I am getting to the point where I think a "design" system in a game is a defect of game design, I would much prefer a general set of explicit guidelines and then wing it.

 

[B_Steele]

Different is fine. It's stupid I have a problem with.

I'm going to drop my opinions in here, as the one that wrote arclight and chain-drive weaponry into Mongoose Traveller.

I have to wonder how you can call weapon ideas based on weapons found in two of the most popular licenses in gaming (Star Wars and Warhammer 40k; from which the ideas were drawn) "stupid".

I can understand someone disliking a style of weaponry for their own game, or even the 3I license, but calling something with roots in extremely well-loved licenses "stupid" seems a bit off to me. Perhaps it isn't right for YOUR game or YOUR chronicle, but tens of thousands of those licenses' fans would disagree strongly with you.

As always, the CSC is a generic Trav book - which means you get to take from it what you need. If somebody wants to run a 40k or Star Wars Trav game, they now have the tools to do it. That is what the book was intended to do; not force people to add things to their sacrosanct worlds and gaming tables.

To bring the topic back on track however, arclight weaponry should damage (or destroy) any non-arc weapon that attempts to parry it. I would NOT have it destroy armour out-of-hand though, that could get WAY too expensive (Battle Dress gets chopped in one strike?). Maybe narrate some damage to the armour in some way, but only if the arclight was used repeatedly on the armour would I really shred it. That is my humble opinions on the subject.

Cheers all,
Bry