Anti-Fighter query

[KennyBoy]

In a recent tourney, I had two Nials jump a Vorlon fighter. Now, as the Vorlon has its own Advanced Anti-Fighter Trait, I fully expected that one of my Nials would be destroyed, but leaving the other to destroy the Vorlon fighter in a dog-fight.
However, my opponent moved his remaining fighters to within 2" range of the Nials and used all 6 of their AAF to destroy both flights.
Now the way our group, which includes one of the playtesters - Greg Smith - plays the AF rule is that you only get the AF roll if you are attacked and NOT if you are the one attacking...
Another playtester - Triggy - was at the same tourney, and he confirmed that my Vorlon opponent was correct, AF is used on offence as well as defence.
After re-checking the rulebook, the way that the rules are worded in this case, does tend to indicate (to me at least) that this is indeed the case.
If their has been a previous discussion about this, and it was resolved, I apologise... though I did go through the Rulesmasters posts for about 5 pages...

 

[Iain McGhee]

I'm afraid your Vorlon friend is right, after fighter movement any fighter within 2" of an AF equipped ship (which includes fighters) can be attacked with the AF trait. Unless it's locked in a dogfight from a previous turn. Doesn't say anywhere (that I can find, at any rate) that only an attacked ship can use it.

 

[Greg Smith]

The rules say:

Anti-Fighter rolls may not be made against flights involved in dogfights. However, some special fighters may also have the Anti-Fighter trait, which may be used just before a dogfight is initiated, as enemy fighters move into contact (if opposing fighters have the trait, they are resolved simultaneously). Once the dogfight has started, the trait may not be used.

In the example Kennyboy describes, the Vorlon player was wrong.

The only anti-fighter that can take place against a flight in a dogfight is AF from a fighter which the enemy moved into contact with, as it moves into contact.

 

[Burger]

Yep Greg is correct. The other fighters can't use their AAF because their target is in a dogfight.

 

[Ripple]

um...

one small part of that answer seems wrong... specifically the part where it says (if opposing fighters have the trait, they are resolved simultaneously)... that indicates that both the attacking and defending fighters get their AF (or potentially loaned AF). If only attacked fighters could do use theirs you would not get that situation.

So the Vorlon player would be wrong in the above situation in that he could not fire from 2 inches away, but it would seem he could enter the dogfight and contribute that way.

Ripple

 

[KennyBoy]

Yes, it was that exact passage in the rules that made me think that Greg and I have been playing it wrong.
It would indicate that the rule is as Iain McGhee said, any fighter that ends its move within 2" of an enemy fighter with AF or AAF, then it can be attacked with it before dog-fights are resolved.
The wording of the book does imply that the normal - can't fire at fighters in a dog-fight - rule applied to ships, does not apply to Fighters with/or lent AF dice...

 

[Greg Smith]

one small part of that answer seems wrong... specifically the part where it says (if opposing fighters have the trait, they are resolved simultaneously)... that indicates that both the attacking and defending fighters get their AF (or potentially loaned AF). If only attacked fighters could do use theirs you would not get that situation.

The part about when it is used, "as enemy fighters move into contact," seems to contradict that. But I will accept your interpretation.

 

[Ripple]

In answer to Kenny, I wasn't sure about that at range bit. To me it limited the use of AF to flights already contacted, but re-reading the rule it is a gray zone, as it talks about 'which may be used before a dogfight is initiated, as the enemy fighters move into contact.'

To me that strikes me as bad wording, but it could be argued that you would have to shoot as an interruption of normal movement, if trying for RAW. Hard to say...

 

[B5freak]

Looking closely at the rule, the key language is,

..some special fighters may also have the Anti-Fighter trait, which may be used just before a dogfight is initiated, as enemy fighters move into contact ..

There's nothing here that states only the fighters being engaged by the enemy may make AF attacks. It only states that AF attaks made by fighter flights take place between the initiation of a dogfight and the point when opposing fighter flights are moved into base to base contact.

Based on the language, it would appear as though the Vorlon player had it right, but only a "Rulesmanster" can answer for sure.[/i]