American Civil War Naval Battles

[Natxo]

Hello everybody.

I have been playing some test games with the rules from DM, Victory on the Rivers, and also the game published in Signs and Portents, Iron Thunder.

Both games are really good, but I prefer the firs one, Victory on the Rivers. This set has more ship stats than the other one, and the information about the ships is better. The only problem is that the guns in this set of rules doesn´t have ranges. 40´´ is the longest range possible, but all the guns can fire so far as this range.
Now, I´m using the ranges of Iron Thunder with the guns of VotR.
Does someone uses these rules?
I would like to know your opinions.

 

[DM]

Sorry Naxto, I've been extremely remiss in not getting back to you. the ranges I've used are as follows:

Smoothbores
9pdr or smaller / 4” : 20”
12-18pdr / 5.2” : 20”
18-36pdr / 6.5” : 30”
42pdr / 7” : 30”
68pdr / 8” : 40”
120pdr / 10” : 40”
170pdr / 11” : 40”
440pdr / 15” : 50”
500pdr / 16” or bigger :50”

Rifles
12pdr / 3” : 30”
20pdr / 3.6” : 30”
30pdr / 4.2” : 30”
100pdr / 6.4” : 40”
120pdr / 7” : 40”
150pdr / 8” : 50”
350pdr / 12” : 50”
600pdr / 16” : 60”

 

[Natxo]

Great!!!

I will test these ranges as soon as possible. I hope that now it will be necessary to tink twice before launching the ironclads against a well organized line of guns.

 

[DM]

Thoughts and comments always welcome

 

[DMarcus]

Not sure I posted this information in the right location

I pointed out the new rules for Iron Thunder to my collegue Lawrence and we tested out a short battle. We chose to recreate the battle that took place the day before the CSS Virginia fought the USS Monitor. When we began, we did not have an accurate recollection of that days actions so we "fudged" it. The Union force consisted of 3 of the Hartford class ships (the "early" model with only 1 Light Rifled gun) while the Confederates had the Virginia.

We began the battle with the Virginia roughly 40" away from the Union squadron. The Virginia was heading directly towards the enemy, while the Hartford classes were arranged in a line of battle, with their broadsides facing the approaching Virginia. We did not have a lot of space to play in and so after seeing how far the ships were moving at 20" and 13", we decided to cut the speeds in half, to 10" and 6.5" respectively.

After 4-5 turns it became apparant that the Virginia was slowly being ground down by the Federal squadron. She was taking an average of 2 points of damage a turn, and was barely inflicting the same amount in return. Being slower than the Union squadron, she was unable to bring her ram into play. This did not seem right, given her historical success. Our battlefield was not exactly defined (being played on the carpet) but the battle remained within a 4' x 4' space up to this point. We did some research on the actual battle and were surprised by what we found. I won't go into detail, but if you search on "Battle Hampton Roads" you should find the same websites that we did. Based on what we learned (from both the game and our research) we have the following suggestions:

1) Reduce the speeds of all ships by half.

2) Improve the armor of the Virginia (and probably several of the other heavy ironclads) to 6+. While this will not give the Virginia her historical defense it will hopefully allow her to take on more than a single ship with a reasonable chance of victory, which would be historically accurate.

3) Investigate some simple point-of-sail rules for sailing vessels. For example, determine the direction of the wind at the start of play. So long as a sailing vessel has a bearing within X degrees (180 degrees for example) of the direction of the wind, it has the speed listed in its data sheet. If it travelling within Y degrees against the wind it's speed is halved. Not the most realistic solution, but hopefully a playable one.

4) Also consider taking into account the flow of currents for Age of Sail and Ironclad vessels. This is not as important for a battle in the open sea, but it seems to have been a factor in the battle of Hampton Roads and may be a factor in other river battles of this era. Perhaps the current is given a direction and a strength at the start of play. Ships travelling with the current gain a number of inches to their movement equal to the current's strength, and lose a like amount when travelling against it. When travelling perpendicular to the current, either ignore it or cause the ship to "drift" downstream a number of inches equal to the current strength. Again, not something to consider in the open ocean, but something that you may want to consider for river battles in this era. Should the Ironclads be the next VaS expansion? I am not sure that is the best idea.

Between the Age of Sail and WW2 is a wonderful period of discovery and trail and error in ship design, but not many historical battles or involved nations that would make for good scenarios or campaigns. We did some reseach into ironclad battles on the web, and could not find many historical meeting engagements for this era. According to Lawrence there are some competitive naval engagements during WW1, and there are plenty of nations and ships to choose from during the Age of Sail, and you can also include pirates and privateers in this era as well, but the pickings in between may be slim.

I would say that the Age of Sail and the Advent of the Ironclad should be in the same or closely related products and the rules for each style of combat should allow for overlap with each other. Those rules should address the dependency on the wind that all sailing vessels possessed and the freedom to manuver that steam and propellers allowed to the ironclads and monitors. Not to mention the advantages of iron and steel armor. I am not sure the Ironclads alone would be a good choice for the next stand-alone VaS product. WW1 or the Age of Sail (with or without the Ironclads included) might make better products. A WW1 product should make use of as much of the WW2 mechanics currently in place as possible. Reduced accuracy, slower speeds, smaller primary batteries (in both type and number) and more numerous secondary and tertiary batteries should be taken into consideration here.

Best regards and continued success!
Marc-Jason Czech
Lawrence Lagrosa

 

[DM]

Marc-Jason, I believe the WW1 version is being typeset at the moment

 

[DM]

Between the Age of Sail and WW2 is a wonderful period of discovery and trail and error in ship design, but not many historical battles or involved nations that would make for good scenarios or campaigns.

leaving aside the Crimean War and American Civil War, there are actualy quite afew excellent campaigns that can be wargamed between the end of the "age of sail" (into which some aspects of the Crimean War fall anyway) and WW1. The Lissa campaign and avrious wars in South America being the two best examples, plus there were quite a few "what ifs". Around about WW1 (covered by "Age of Dreadnoughts") you also have the Russo Japanese War, the Spanish American War and the Sino Japanese War (hoping to cover these with another period variant, title undecided).

I woudn't agree that ironclads and age of sail would best be covered by a single set. Common (ish) rule mechanisms yes, but the degree of tactical and technological change makes a "one size fits all" approach a bit unwieldy. I've tried it a few times in the past.

 

[Ray Ray]

Not sure I posted this information in the right location

We began the battle with the Virginia roughly 40" away from the Union squadron. The Virginia was heading directly towards the enemy, while the Hartford classes were arranged in a line of battle, with their broadsides facing the approaching Virginia. We did not have a lot of space to play in and so after seeing how far the ships were moving at 20" and 13", we decided to cut the speeds in half, to 10" and 6.5" respectively.
Based on what we learned (from both the game and our research) we have the following suggestions:

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback! See my comments below.

1) Reduce the speeds of all ships by half. I'm really resistant to de-coupling ship speed from the gunnery ranges. Primarily, this is because I'm committed to maintaining an historically accurate representation of gunnery ranges and ship speeds. If you chop the speeds in half, you start to mess with ground scale and how long ships are exposed to gunfire before closing to ram or pass a shore battery.

2) Improve the armor of the Virginia (and probably several of the other heavy ironclads) to 6+. While this will not give the Virginia her historical defense it will hopefully allow her to take on more than a single ship with a reasonable chance of victory, which would be historically accurate.
Perfectly valid point to which I agree wholeheartedly. We saw a similar result in a recent play test featuring the USS Minnesota against the Virginia. The horde of MSB were causing damage when they should have been of limited use. My position here is that the medium smoothbore needs to be 'nerfed' against the Virginia. The easiest way to do this is to upgrade the Virginia's armor trait to be 'heavy armor'. Heavy guns (and medium rifles) can still pentrate the armor of the Virginia.

3) Investigate some simple point-of-sail rules for sailing vessels. For example, determine the direction of the wind at the start of play. So long as a sailing vessel has a bearing within X degrees (180 degrees for example) of the direction of the wind, it has the speed listed in its data sheet. If it travelling within Y degrees against the wind it's speed is halved. Not the most realistic solution, but hopefully a playable one.
Simple sailing rules were included in the draft I submitted to Mongoose.
Those rules read as follows;
Moving Under Sail
Though rarely used in combat, a number of sailing vessels were commissioned during the war. Badly outclassed by their steam powered counterparts, they may occasionally appear in a game. Sailing ships use the following movement rules.

Wind
Determine the wind speed by rolling 2d6. For each 6 rolled, roll an additional 1d6 and add it to the result. This is the maximum sailing speed in inches.

Speed
Ships may move 1/4 speed when the wind blows into the port or starboard aspects ahead of midships and 3/4 speed when when the wind blows into the port or starboard aspects aft of midships. If the wind is in the Aft aspect, the ship may move up to ½ the maximum speed. Ships may not move with the wind in the forward aspect.

Tacking
Crew Quality Check: 7
Ships may change facing across the wind by Tacking. Tacking is a Special Action that allows a sailing ship to execute a 90 degree turn across the wind allowing the ship to move from one broadside movement direction to the other.

4) Also consider taking into account the flow of currents for Age of Sail and Ironclad vessels. This is not as important for a battle in the open sea, but it seems to have been a factor in the battle of Hampton Roads and may be a factor in other river battles of this era. Current certainly played a role in many battles, but is best left as a scenario specific rule. Depending on time of year current could be running from nothing (Summer on the James River) to a raging torrent (the Tennesee River at Fort Henry). Large sections of the Missisippi resmbled lakes when the river was at 'normal' or low stages. The various shoals acted as natural dams to confine the water. Add in estuaries and bays and tidal currents further complicate the effects. Use what feels right to you.

Hope this helps and keep the comments coming!

Ray