Alternative Hero Points system

[Deleriad]

I've become increasingly unsold on Hero Points as they currently exist in RQ. Many reasons but most notable is that they tend to encourage hoarding so that PCs take fewer risks but once PCs have a stockpile of hero points they can feel untouchable. I also don't like the fact that you have to spend then to gain a heroic ability at which point, presumably, you then become less heroic.

I saw an idea on OpenQuest (I think )of a Hero Point pool which I'm keen to try out.

Basically, at the start of each session/story/adventure the players get a pool of hero points (e.g. 2 per character). These hero points can be used by any adventurer. Once used the Hero Point can't be used again until the pool is refreshed (e.g. at the end of an adventure or at a significant plot moment.)

Some extra wrinkles might be: a character with an Improvement Modifier adds or subtracts that many Hero Points from the number they give to the pool.

Whenever a HP is spent it *goes to the GM who can now spend it on NPCs* When the GM spends it, it goes back to the pool.

Heroic Abilities are now 'bought' with IRs instead.

Players can spend IRs to allow them to donate extra HPs to the pool. E.g. 1st extra HP costs 3 IRs, second extra HP costs 4 IRs and so on. So Marcus the communally-minded, charismatic swash-buckler might add 2 HPs to the pool, plus 1 for his Improvement Modifier and plus an extra 2 that he has bought with IRs over the years. Everyone wants to hang out with Marcus.

This seems to me like it would give quite a different dynamic to HPs and because they reset then players don't need to hoard. Conversely, if spent HPs go to the GM, then spending HPs effectively 'raises the stakes' in a session.

As I say, I'm curious to see if anyone has used something like this (in RQ or any system) and how it worked. Looks to me like it might be fun

 

[stacktrace]

I like the idea!

One potential pitfall is the gimp character that chews through the party's lot of HP while everyone else just wants to see him die already.

It could also lead to a similar issue as the hoarding, where the party can send a single character into a dangerous situation because they have a large pool to keep that character up.

Or perhaps not, I do like the overall idea, be curious to hear how it actually plays.

 

[PhilHibbs]

One potential pitfall is the gimp character that chews through the party's lot of HP while everyone else just wants to see him die already.

Yes, it's an idea that might go horribly wrong depending on the group. I can't imagine it working in the game where I played my ever-popular stealing, lying, murdering trickster...

 

[Deleriad]

Been thinking further on this. In retrospect I don't like the communal pool idea. What I think I'm going to do is:

At the start of each session, each PC gets a number Hero Points that can be spent during the session. HPs do not accumulate between sessions (or equivalents). Any spent are refreshed at the beginning of the next session.

A PC normally has 2 Hero Points plus its Improvement Modifier.

A PC who has extra Hero Points because of its Improvement Modifier can spend those Hero Points for other players.

A PCs can gain permanent increases to their Hero Points in various ways. (see wiki page)

Additional Hero Points can be temporarily gained during a session as a reward for a major contribution (whether in plot, combat, characterisation) or even providing a damned good laugh. These Hero Points do not carry over between sessions.

NPCs have Hero Points too. At the beginning of a session the GM has two HPs as a common pool that any NPC can use. Major NPCs also have 2 HPs each. These HPs reset each session or equivalent.

Heroic Abilities are now bought with Improvement Rolls, not Hero Points. There is a new Heroic Ability. It requires CHA 15+, a skill with CHA in its basic score at 90%+ and costs 8 Improvement Rolls. It gives the PC an extra HP each session. This HP can be spent on other players' characters if wished.

The idea is to encourage the use of HPs rather than hoarding them but at the same time make them relatively limited. It would also bump up the use of CHA even further and emphasise that high CHA can benefit both an individual and their friends.

What do you think?

 

[PhilHibbs]

Thanks for your thoughts, all very interesting, I might pinch some of the ideas.

NPCs have Hero Points too. At the beginning of a session the GM has two HPs as a common pool that any NPC can use. Major NPCs also have 2 HPs each. These HPs reset each session or equivalent.

I wouldn't ever give NPCs hero points. At the start of a "scenario", everything is going well for the bad guys - they've kidnapped the princess, robbed the stagecoach, poisoned the well, whatever. They spent all their Hero Points doing this, and now it all starts to go wrong for them when the adventurers turn up.

 

[andyl]

I've become increasingly unsold on Hero Points as they currently exist in RQ. Many reasons but most notable is that they tend to encourage hoarding so that PCs take fewer risks but once PCs have a stockpile of hero points they can feel untouchable.

Couldn't this be easily solved by having a house-rule limiting the amount of hero-points a character may spend in a single scene?

I also don't like the fact that you have to spend then to gain a heroic ability at which point, presumably, you then become less heroic.

I don't get that vibe - although to be fair I haven't got to the point where players are looking at heroic abilities. For a start I don't see HPs as a measure of how heroic you are - after all if you can be the wimp at the back slowly accumulating HPs over time without doing anything particularly heroic. Secondly you should be getting a new ability that makes you more able to do stuff that ordinary people can't. Everyone can see that you are a hero when you start parrying arrows with your sword - no ordinary mortal can do that.

I think a lot of it is to do with play style. If you don't have people hoarding hero points just so they are less vulnerable then it isn't a problem.

Now obviously if they are keeping them to buy a heroic ability then they can still burn through them if they get in trouble - which might not be what you want. Although I suppose you could have the choice of two pools - one general and one for gaining heroic abilities. When you receive a HP you must choose which pool you put it in.

 

[Chalupacabra]

Here's what I do. If you don't use a hero point in the time you would get your natural break to gain more, then you retain what you had. I gave two players extra hero points for being...heroic. That could allow for a slow accumulation, but it encourages people to use them and once you're in the habit, shouldn't be a problem. Works well for my players.

Oh, I can't stand the heroic abilities. They are out and so no need to horde them for that, I think the CM suffice, for me. But if you allowed a Heroquesting or other means, then you wouldn't need to allow the hero point purchase rule and let 'em use them for saving the day. Which is what they are named for!

On a side note, regarding improvement rolls, I only allow a player to put more than one on a skill if they used them. That changed from a you have to use the skill to improve it. I relaxed that from my original "Can't improve the skill at all if you didn't use it" rule.

My campaign may also be why this works, too. I removed Common Magic altogether in my world. Instead it is an old magic that was lost and forgotten. The players have uncovered this magic and to start, are the only ones that use it. Will cause grief with the religions as other than the small time shamans and reclusive sorcerers, they were the go to guys for magic. Now, their dominance and ability to draw worshippers may be threatened by a magic that anyone can learn without their control. So this magic no one has or has seen is kinda like their heroic abilities. It sets them apart. But even if I ran a typical campaign, I think I would run it the same way.

My 2 cents.