Alternate interstellar travel.

[Reynard]

Just received an updated version of an old favorite space combat game and campaign system called Starfire around since 1979.

What makes it interesting is how it deals with interstellar travel. Rather than Jump, Hyperspace or Warp as Traveller has, it uses warp points, wormholes, that interconnect systems and even certain starless regions. Not every system is connected to every other system. Earth may have to traverse many different systems to finally reach Alpha Centauri while Epsilon Eridani might be the next warp over. Systems have different numbers of warp points from 1 to 12. A system with one is essentially a dead end.

If that's not interesting enough, consider if this was Traveller there is no such thing as Jump (or the alternative) drives. You use slower than light engines to travel between warp points in a star system and between WPs and bodies in a system. What do you do with all that room once used by the jump and it's fuel? It also means all spacecraft are equal and can travel between stars. One other big change, space stations become common as sentries around WPs.

 

[paltrysum]

Wormholes are an interesting idea, but it definitely makes in-system travel more of a thing. No more jumping 100 diameters out from the mainworld or system gas giant at your leisure. I can imagine creating a campaign based on wormhole travel, but you'd want to flesh out all the worlds of each system in your campaign to make each and every possible stop interesting.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Depends how long it takes to get from warp point to warp point.

If it is weeks or months then you are going to need a lot more life support and recreational space, or invest in lots of cold berths.

will you need additional power plant fuel or reaction mass if using reaction drives.

You will also have to set a speed limit based on the armour used on the front of the ship to protect against dust impacts at high velocities, the front end of your ship may well be a massive armour plate.

 

[Reynard]

Naturally we have Rule Zero and a referee can come up with any method for placing the wormholes to make things interesting. The Starfire rules for system generation and wormhole placement are easily portable to Traveller. Hex maps are in light second, minute and hour for different scales of movement and combat and convert to kms. Planetary bodies orbit their sun but WPs don't move so no parking a WP next to the homeworld or a gas giant! Some WPs can be very close to the star or way into the outer system and at opposite ends of the system so travel times vary immensely. Since WPs don't move, you can create distance charts between each WP and it's up to the ref if they want the homeworld to move realistically. Take the distance between each pair of points and use the formula for a particular maneuver rating for time. Obviously the big advantage will be ships with high Gs especially in warfare. Oh, WP travel is instantaneous so time constraints are within a system.

Obviously warfare and commerce would change based on how ships are constructed with that extra space. Room is available for more cargo and fuel while warships are more like SDBs and battleriders possibly making fighting more protracted. These optional systems you left out of design because of space might seem more attractive. Since WPs are the only way in or out of systems, they become very important in war and can shape both ship design and tactics.

 

[Condottiere]

They tend to create chokepoints, which increase their strategic value, and ensure there will be competition to control them, and access to them.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Higher TL in Traveller will see wormholes in use.

 

[phavoc]

Naturally we have Rule Zero and a referee can come up with any method for placing the wormholes to make things interesting. The Starfire rules for system generation and wormhole placement are easily portable to Traveller. Hex maps are in light second, minute and hour for different scales of movement and combat and convert to kms. Planetary bodies orbit their sun but WPs don't move so no parking a WP next to the homeworld or a gas giant! Some WPs can be very close to the star or way into the outer system and at opposite ends of the system so travel times vary immensely. Since WPs don't move, you can create distance charts between each WP and it's up to the ref if they want the homeworld to move realistically. Take the distance between each pair of points and use the formula for a particular maneuver rating for time. Obviously the big advantage will be ships with high Gs especially in warfare. Oh, WP travel is instantaneous so time constraints are within a system.

Obviously warfare and commerce would change based on how ships are constructed with that extra space. Room is available for more cargo and fuel while warships are more like SDBs and battleriders possibly making fighting more protracted. These optional systems you left out of design because of space might seem more attractive. Since WPs are the only way in or out of systems, they become very important in war and can shape both ship design and tactics.

Starfire also introduced the idea of warp point sizes (size of ship you could go through it), and different classes of warp points (they may be 'open' and detectable on one side, but 'closed' and hidden on the other side. And some weren't always stable, so you might have a one-way trip.

Starefire had a lot of interesting ideas (like external ordance racks). And combat went pretty fast. Ship design was fast as well, although sometimes it was hard to decide if you wanted to put all your 'free' hits like crew compartments up front - but hopefully you left one at the end so you didn't suffocate after the battle.

 

[mancerbear]

This is very similar to space travel in Niven/Pournel's Co-Dominion and that used in the Wing Commander computer game.

The Co-Dominion needed no drive to enter a jump point, but had to find them because they were hidden. Wing Commander used some sort of drive to open the jump points once they were located.

 

[Reynard]

Okay, time to dig out High Guard again! Start converting some of the adventure ships.

I'll also need to study the warp point distances such as closest and farthest locations to each other then determine typical flight times. Find out how they compare to regular Traveller travel times.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

You could even keep the Jump Drive and have that be the means to activate the Warp Point. Then your game becomes a lot like the Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMasters Bujold.

Reverset the Jump Rating vs. TL so that higher TL ships need a lower Rating to open the Warp Point.

Yes, in-System travel becomes much more important, as does piracy... But now systems are defensible - only a few entry/exit points to defend. VERY different setting than the OTU, but could be easily done with the rest of the Traveller rules.

 

[locarno24]

I've not played starfire, but I've read the associated novels (Crusade/In Death Ground/etc)

Thoughts on the effects of 'warp points', if you essentially use them unchanged:

• Warp Points in the setting tended to occur near points of gravitational stress - meaning close in to a star, or near gas giants, or else a long, long way from a star (leading to 'starless warp nexi' where two warp points are in proximity to one another but near nothing else, not even an empty solar system). That means (assuming you're starting at a biosphere world), transit times in the order of a few days to reach a warp point and the same to reach destination at the other end. Transit itself is essentially instantaneous, meaning a system-to-adjacent-system round trip is likely to be 11 days at 1G (a bit faster than Traveller but not massively so) but only 5 at 6G

• M-drive speed is far more significant - since packing in an improved M-drive is a lot easier than packing in an improved jump drive - meaning even a merchant ship is encouraged to pack at least a 3G drive (more than that gets diminishing returns on transit times)

• Whilst not every route is direct, 'chains' of explored warp lines do make for very obvious trade routes. Being a 'dead-end' system is a real issue, especially if you're more than one system off the main line. By comparison, being at a natural junction point means that you can't be bypassed (even with high-tech ships) meaning that you can get major trading junctions and military choke points

• because everyone jumping in appears at close proximity (i.e. within energy weapon accurate gun range) of a known position, fixed orbital defences are a meaningful option in a way they are not in normal traveller universes. Jumping in to a system expecting you in a straight warp point assault is bloody as hell, and likely to cost multiple capital ships in the first few minutes

• there is no specific 'warp engine' but a minimum size and structural integrity of ship which can make transit (making jump-capable fighters not an option)

• ships making jump suffer serious systems stress and are not really capable for a minute or so post-transit (making warp point assaults even harder)

• People are affected by jump shock too, and 'smart' computers worst of all (which is the main problem with automated ships and probes)

• the only way to see what is on the other side of a point is to jump through it

• there is also a maximum size which can make transit via a given warp point. If an especially useful warp point connection has a 'small' throat, this could lead to PANAMAX/SUEMAX type situations where freighters which are smaller than is truly cost-effective are favoured in a given region due to being able to take a critical shortcut.

• Finding new warp points is an art form - the better your sensors, the more likely you are to find an 'open' point, but there's always the possibility of someone else finding a 'closed' point, meaning that a star system without mobile forces and close defences around a main-world orbit can never be truly secure, no matter how many surveys you do, or how big the guns on known warp points.

 

[Reynard]

"You could even keep the Jump Drive and have that be the means to activate the Warp Point."

Traveller already covers a jump alternate with the Space Folding Drive. The SFD makes wormholes mobile while 'natural' wormholes place limitations on the system. What I was considering was a Traveller system without the technological need for FTL and the effects this has on ship designs, travel, security, etc.. It's a dramatic change to the standard universe.

I hope to have some time on my day off to research more concerning time and system movement. Of course, a Traveller referee can make their own system to determine world, gas giant, asteroids and WP placement. I am not trying to hawk the Starfire game just use some its mechanics to describe this topic.

System mapping has a hexagonal map made up of smaller hexagons for a radius of 30 hexes. Each hex is 12 light minutes or 216 million kilometers so a star system has a radius of about 6.5 billion km. Distance formula in the core book page 152 puts time to travel to the core of a system from an outermost WPs using 1g at 19 days. Double that if there were two WPs in extreme opposition. Now that's an absolute extreme. Most WPs will be closer to the core but still can be at great distance from each other and system bodies. Still not to harsh on maneuver fuel.

 

[Chumbly]

In case some did'not know this..starfire 2nd and 3rd edition were largely designed by David Weber of the honor verse and safehold novels fame.
He wrote a series of starfire novels that are available on amazon that are pretty good space opera..even if you are not
Interested in the game aspects of this coversation.. The novels really illustrate the tactical and strategic implications
Of war with fixed warp holes as the interstellar transit mechanism

CHUMBLY

 

[phavoc]

Warp points, if you use them, means that your exploration, trade and empire don't depend upon closeness of a star but by the chain that the warp points connect to. Mapping is easy if you keep it just 2D.

Starfire was originally created by Stephen Cole. Weber didn't start working on the series until the 3rd version. But Weber did heavily influence the game with his modifications. It's a fun game, and it runs pretty fast. Admittedly it can start to bog down when you get into the empire portion, and you have to start developing star systems too.

 

[Reynard]

What makes it interesting for Traveller is exploration to start. Scouts have no idea what's (or who) is on the other side of a new WP. The restrictive nature of WPs also make empire building a different game. Empires might not span as an open space games allows where reaching a system can have a variety of paths depending on drive and fuel.

Reading my Ultra Starfire edition more, I discovered warp points can be within 22,500 km and 225,000 km of each other as the other extreme. That's about 50 minutes to 3.5 hours apart at 1g.