kafka said:
alex_greene said:
Darrians are another race that should not be interfertile.
So perhaps they are...but remember this is game of the future. That would not preclude Test Tube babies and other assisted reproduction techniques. The fact that most common victim of war is not only the truth is the only reason why I could see the reason for inter-fertility and laying the basis for bastardized Third Imperium to rise. Hope that is enough innuendo that stays within the boundaries of the board..
And here I was reading the original post about how old modern man was, and thinking....nah. No one wants a discussion of paeloanthropology and biogenetics on this thread. Wrong wrong wrong ! Cool, though. So, this time, I'll voluntarily fail my resist pedantry roll...
A few points to consider.
The first is the excellent note about reproductive assistance above. There are quite a few species on earth that would be assumend non-interfertile, but that can bring to term with medical assistance. Some of which have been isolated for at least as long as Travelller Hominids.
Secondly, the assumption that 300k years would guarantee speciation is not a given; the smart money bet, perhaps, but not absolute, by a long shot. Speciation is a complicated issue, not simply determined by viable breeding (anymore). Lions and tigers have been crossed, as have a wide variety of other isolated populations. In fact, a significant amount of noninterfertility is actually caused behavioraly. Many breeding populations have developed complex mating rituals which essentially preculde breeding with other groups, even when it is possible...and in fact physical separation of breeding populations isn't even always needed for this (Avians and such show this).
Thirdly, and this is important, there is no definitive genetic measure for when humans cannot interbreed -in fact, there have been comparative studies that suggest there is a large amount of distance between modern and archaic members of the species and offshoots, such as Neanderthals, but, as we have no living examples, the lack of fertility has to be inferred; and that's not so clear as you'd thing: Neanderthals have a marked and significant divergence from both modern and contemporary humans, and yet, specimens have been found mixing unique neanderthal traits and archaic/modern traits; the same for H Erectus and Archaic humans, and Neanderthals. The problem is, the actual in vitro issues are generally much more important to viability than simple genetic distances.
Even isolation of a small group (and generally the group size for rapid speciation is well less than 100) will be more likely to produce breeding barriers typified by non-viable embryos or sterile offspring, than actually being unable to cross fertilize. And assisting viability is just the issue that medical technology deals with, and can be expected to deal with moreso.
The upshot is this: A significant body of evidence suggests that as a species, we are very promiscuous; and that for higher animals, speciation by cross fertility isn't as valid a measure as it used to be; nor as inevitable.
Fourth, Keep in mind that speciation isn't a constant process. There are many examples of static species, even in hominid lines; and seperated static species remaining interfertile (insects, birds and reptiles on isolate islands). The key to remember is that while evolution is a constant force, speciation isn't. Given that the Vilanii are a technologically assisted race (the Shamen who prepare food), the kind of harsh selection for (say) digestive enzymes and dietary histamines that migh cause fertility problems at the genetic level wouldn't be an issue. One could argue easily tht once the food issues were solved (and they were), the Vilanii homeworld was very hospitible for humans - compatable environment, no diseases, predation very limited, no particular competition(Except for the giant sentient war robots, of course :shock: ... harder to deal with
those via natural selection, though) ; so, for them, and the Zhodani (who have a similar if more dietary compatable homeworld) , genetic stasis is at least as likely as speciation.
Finally, its worth pointing out that the OTU Humans are a mix of interfertile and not -Vilani are, Florians are not, neither are those sharp teethy dudes who's name I forgot. And we don't have any information on most of them.
