ACTA SF

I think I may have a solution. When I get ready to post to the FC Forum, I copy the post (and its codes). Then I paste it here and it shouldn't take that much longer. :D Sometimes it takes me a while to find a solution.

In the meantime, you might like this page with many of the pictures all gathered up: http://www.starfleetgames.com/Starline%202500.shtml

Jean
 
Quick and slightly off topic question. The playtesting stuff mentioned on the FC boards by Scoutdad between fed and klingon cruisers seem somewhat unbalanced, does the kilingon stuff have a lower price to reflect the fact that they go bang at 4 times the rate of the fed ships or is that something that will be fixed in the rules later when final balancing is done. 15 klingon ships blown up to 4 Fed.

Not that I mind klingon ships going bang at a much faster rate, its only fair to help them reach stovakor faster as long as it also works when I roll out my Fed/Gorn/ISC fleets :lol:

Still for campaigns the ability go get back a cripple and repair it rather than rebuild one that went bang is going to be a significant factor. It should be faster to repair stuff than make new stuff after all.
 
Jean said:
I think I may have a solution. When I get ready to post to the FC Forum, I copy the post (and its codes). Then I paste it here and it shouldn't take that much longer. :D Sometimes it takes me a while to find a solution.

In the meantime, you might like this page with many of the pictures all gathered up: http://www.starfleetgames.com/Starline%202500.shtml

Jean


Thanks Jean - that page is a keeper... I assume it'll be updated as new designs get added?

Captain Jonah said:
Not that I mind klingon ships going bang at a much faster rate, its only fair to help them reach stovakor faster as long as it also works when I roll out my Fed/Gorn/ISC fleets :lol:

Nice... :D

Considering that the Kzinti are one of my favourite races (the Feds and Roms being the others), I'm happy to do likewise... :)

Yes, even the Roms like to shoot Klingons once in a while... does the klingons good to learn that their seeking weapons aren't the best... :D
 
Captain Jonah said:
Quick and slightly off topic question. The playtesting stuff mentioned on the FC boards by Scoutdad between fed and klingon cruisers seem somewhat unbalanced, does the kilingon stuff have a lower price to reflect the fact that they go bang at 4 times the rate of the fed ships or is that something that will be fixed in the rules later when final balancing is done.

It could mean 15 small Klingon ships were destroyed to 4 big Federation ones.

But yes, points balancing will happen. It isn't done yet.
 
http://www.starfleetgames.com/Starline%202500.shtml

Yes, that page will be updated and will have four renderings per mini.

Jean
 
Iron Domokun said:
Klingons in SFB/FC tend to have a lower points cost than the Federation. They are less durable, and make up for it with maneuver and range. They certainly shouldn't be blowing up four times faster than the Flatheads do. I hope that was an exaggeration. If it isn't, then something is seriously wrong.

Without seeing the fleet compostion very diffiult to know - was it dreadnoughts versus frigates for instance?

Is there a link to the relevant report anyone has?
 
Sorry http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=4042.

Each of 6 battles was 3 Fed against 3 klingon. One example was

Scoutdad
Our game was a Federation CA, CA, and CA versus a Klingon D7, D7, and D7C. The game went 4 complete turns before we called it. It took 47 minutes, from first roll for intitiative to my final, "Good Game"
During that 47 minutes, Two Klingon vessels were blown-up and the third suffered enough damage that it would have been killed before leavig the map in Turn 5, so I conceded. In addition, the Federation had two ships crippled and the third damaged.

Posted by Scoutdad.
And before anyone accuses me of forgetting to provide a play test report...
6 Games,
18 Federation ships
18 Klingon ships.
During the course of the games, 15 Klingon ships exploded and 4 Federation ones; although 10 or so other Fed ships were crippled.


Matching fed CAs against klingon D7s should be fairly close. It has been a very long time since I played SFBs but three against three like that used to be somewhat more balanced than Feds have 10 damaged ships to repair and 4 to rebuild against the Klingons need to build 15 new ships.

Maybe its me, it was a while ago and my old memory is begining to match the grey hair, maybe thats why so few people played Klingons in our area :lol:
 
I haven't played SFB in a long, long time - but when I did 3 Fed CA would outgun 3 Klingon D7. Think that should have been 2 CA vs 3 D7 for a more even game. Somebody doesn't like Klingons! :twisted:
 
Regarding the relative quicknesswith which Klingons go boom.

In ACTA, much as in SFB and Federation Commander, Klingon ships are more suceptable to damage than the Federation ships. Although I agree, 4 losses to 15 losses is a little bit one sided, but that's why we playtest.

According to the current points value, the match up was off by 5 points. Now, part of the issue was some inexperienced players who don't understand tactics and finesse. If you go head to head with Federation ships while flying Klingons, you're going to lose. Most of the Klingon losses occured at ranges less than 8 inches. Why any Klingon would get within 8 inches of a Federation ship with loaded Photon Torpedoes (much less three of them) is beyond me? But it happened repeatedly. The guys playign the Klignons would charge straight in, firign Disruptors every turn, sometimes at differnet ships each turn and sometimes even at different ships during the SAME turn. Then suddenly, three damaged Federation ships would open up. Twelve Photons targeted at a D7 and even more Phaser-1s targetted at a second D7. The end result, 1 blasted D7 and 1 crippled D7. The D7C would turn tail and run, only to be caught by massed phaser fire over the next two turns. Eventually it would either escape in a damaged state or become crippled and caught before it left the map edge. Then the previously crippled D7 would be hunted down.
Either way, it's notthe greatest tactic in the world.

When the more expereinced players played, things went a little better. Those were the games that went 4 to 5 turns and saw all 4 of hte blasted Federation ships and most of the damaged ones. Of course odd things do happen.
In one of my games, I manuevered to an average of 11 inches from the Fed fleet and opened fire. Unfortunately, I had lost initiative that round, so the freindly Federation player fired first.
Twelve AD of photon torpedoes and twelve AD of Phaser-1s at the same D7. 11 of the 12 photons hit and the phasers were a bit above average, twelve of them hit. That's 44 hits from photons and 12 more from phasers. 56 hits in a single turn is more than enough to bore a big D7 sized hole from the bow to the stern. :shock:

Anyway, back to the question at hand. Klingons are a bit harder to play than the Federation, so with less skilled players - they do die quicker. As stated, they need to rely on range and manueverability to stay alive. In the games were this was accomplished, the results tended to even out somewhat - although a Photon Torpedo can still demolish a Klingon ship faster than a Disruptor can chew through a Federation ship.

We [our playtest group] still feels that the points as written are off, but which way? Are the Feds under-pointed Or are the Klinks over-pointed??
Our next session was roughly equal points of Klingons and Kzinti. That session was more more balanced, so now we think the Feds may be a bit underpointed.
To further refine that feeling, we are playing equal points of Federation versus Kzinti this coming weekend.

Continued testing will tweak the points to the point where everone has a chance at winning an even match. After that, it's all about makign sure there are no even matches!!! :wink:
 
Ah, well - you know what they say: you know you're getting older when Klingon Captains look like children!! :lol:
 
@scoutdad - sounds like your inexperienced players were borrowing the tactics from a certain tv series, not from how the ships were set up to play?
 
Rick said:
@scoutdad - sounds like your inexperienced players were borrowing the tactics from a certain tv series, not from how the ships were set up to play?

I think it's more an aspect of a "brash young Captain!"

I know that some ofthe ACTA guys get concerned when they read: 15 Klingon ships destroyed, 4 Federation ships destroyed.
That's why I try to make it a point to let everyone know that some of the players are a bit lacking in tactical expereince.

When the more experineced guys face off against each other, the game really works well. All we need to do now is confirm the point values.
 
Yes, it does sound like the Fed CA might be a little underpriced - with the long-range encounters, the CA should be losing to the D7 half the time, the rest being pretty much a draw or a marginal win - as you say, it's when the CA gets in close to savage the enemy ships that they're at their strongest.

I don't remember it being quite that extreme in SFB though... even up close the D7 was able to hold its own a bit better than that - but then that might be a side effect of the impulse system vs the turn-based system that ACTA uses - initiative means that much more damage has to be taken at one go... (an unfortunate side effect, but one that I can't see a way around and the speed benefits outweigh the downside (unless, like me, your dice rolling SUCKS... in which case you have my sympathy)).
 
scoutdad said:
Rick said:
@scoutdad - sounds like your inexperienced players were borrowing the tactics from a certain tv series, not from how the ships were set up to play?

I think it's more an aspect of a "brash young Captain!"

Sounds more like another day at the firing range for the Feds...playing on Easy...

They'll learn... :)

BTW the release schedule is up now - with a whole load of Federation, Romulan and Klingon goodies on the calendar...
 
So a couple of things here then. Fed ships may be a bit cheap, well it is the federation so you expect lowest bidder :lol:

Klingons need a warning about not being played by new people.

Klingon ships are not supposed to explode like popcorn when hit by stuff. But they are more fragile. So does these mean the floating bricks (Gorn) are the toughest of ships to explode?

Just asking for when the Gorn Armarda comes rolling across the map at medium speed spitting plasma death at anyone who comes close :twisted:

Fixed maps, corners and Plasmas. Them I remember. Mwahahahahaha.

Checked the release list. 6 months waiting for the Gorn, what is this, Gorn Hatred. Where is the love for the big walking lizards. Flat tops, long necks and back stabbers everywhere and not a decent plasma chucker in sight :lol:
 
scoutdad said:
Rick said:
@scoutdad - sounds like your inexperienced players were borrowing the tactics from a certain tv series, not from how the ships were set up to play?

I think it's more an aspect of a "brash young Captain!"

I know that some ofthe ACTA guys get concerned when they read: 15 Klingon ships destroyed, 4 Federation ships destroyed.
That's why I try to make it a point to let everyone know that some of the players are a bit lacking in tactical expereince.

Actually as a ACTA guy we are normally quite happy when lots of things blow up (even more wnhen its your opponent) its when nothing does I get concerned. You are quite right in that a good ACTA layer can punish a bad player severely if they don't play to the strengths of their fleet / race.

Look forward to seeing more your reports - terrain should be hand for the klingons making hit and run attacks - esepcaily if they play it right :)
 
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