ACTA - GEG damage from critical hits

[Burger]

A Drakh ship has GEG 3. I get 2 hits on it with a single-damage weapon, one of them causes a crit. The crit is rolled as a 3-6 (+3 damage, +4 crew). What is the damage caused?

a) 4 damage and 5 crew. The non-crit is absorbed by the GEG. But the hit that caused a critical does its normal 1 damage and 1 crew, plus the 3 damage and 4 crew "extras" from the crit.
b) 3 damage and 4 crew. The non-crit is absorbed by the GEG, and so is the normal damage from the crit. The only damage getting through the GEG is from the extra effects of criticals.

 

[katadder]

the one damage was caused before the crit and causes a crit, not actually by a crit so would be stopped IMO and therefore option B.

 

[Reaverman]

yeah, 3 hits on a Drakh ship. Scoring a 2,4, and 6. Then the Drakh's GEG of 3 would ignore the 3 points of damage, but the following damage from the critical roll would not be ignored.

 

[Burger]

Official ruling please, I already know you 2 guys disagree with me.

This also applies to "Masters of Destruction"; does the triple damage apply to the actual hit itself, or just the extra damage rolled on the crit table?

 

[Reaverman]

Official ruling please, I already know you 2 guys disagree with me.

This also applies to "Masters of Destruction"; does the triple damage apply to the actual hit itself, or just the extra damage rolled on the crit table?

look at the table below....

1 Bulkhead Hits: No Damage Dealt
2-5 Solid Hit: -1 Damage -1 Crew to target ship
6 Critical Hit: As Solid Hit, but also roll on the systems table

 

[Burger]

Lets wait for someone official to answer here. If you want to debate lets do it in the ACTA forum. Thats what rulesmasters is for.

Case for option a: the table says "critical hit". Therefore when you roll a 6, all damage is caused by a critical hit, including the 1 damage and 1 crew, and cannot be soaked by GEG.
Case for option b: the table says "as solid hit". Solid hits damage can be soaked by GEG, therefore the damage from the 6 can be soaked by the GEG, but the extra damage rolled on the systems table can't.

 

[B_Steele]

As Masters of Destruction say that the shot is treated as if it has double/triple damage...it would also multiply the initial ping of damage too.

GEG says that Critical Hits ignore the effects of the GEG and suffer full damage and crew, so we have always played it that the critical hit (determined by the location roll) ignores it COMPLETELY, not just the bonus damage.

Matthew can say for sure, but in our group and the last tourney I was at we thought it was pretty clear to us.

Cheers!
Bry

 

[Reaverman]

As Masters of Destruction say that the shot is treated as if it has double/triple damage...it would also multiply the initial ping of damage too.

GEG says that Critical Hits ignore the effects of the GEG and suffer full damage and crew, so we have always played it that the critical hit (determined by the location roll) ignores it COMPLETELY, not just the bonus damage.

Matthew can say for sure, but in our group and the last tourney I was at we thought it was pretty clear to us.

Cheers!
Bry

Are you saying that if a 6 is rolled on that damage roll (the Solid hit, not the critical effect), is ignored by GEG? Or, are you saying the Damage ignores the the GEG?

 

[Burger]

Are you saying that if a 6 is rolled on that damage roll (the Solid hit, not the critical effect)

What solid hit? If a 6 is rolled, there is no solid hit. There is a critical hit.

 

[katadder]

6 is rolled its a solid hit with a critical, or thats how it looks, or if it isnt a solid hit then it must be no damage but the crit

 

[Burger]

1 Bulkhead Hits: No Damage Dealt
2-5 Solid Hit: -1 Damage -1 Crew to target ship
6 Critical Hit: As Solid Hit, but also roll on the systems table

A 6 is a critical hit, not a solid hit. The damage it does is the same as a solid hit, but since it is a critical hit, this damage cannot be reduced by GEG.

 

[Reaverman]

6 is rolled its a solid hit with a critical, or thats how it looks, or if it isnt a solid hit then it must be no damage but the crit

Exactly Katadder

 

[B_Steele]

The ':' of the Damage table is used as a grammatical defining mark of the table. Therefore, the line...

Critical Hit: As Solid Hit, and roll on the systems table

...means that a Critical Hit is defined as having the same effects of a Solid Hit but also rolls on the systems table.

This means that the term 'Critical Hit' (which is what ignores a GEG altogether) imposes the same effects of a Solid Hit (-1 Damage/-1 Crew) and gains additional stuff from a separate table. Even though it refers to the Solid Hit for information, it is still a Critical Hit for all purposes; such as ignoring the GEG or getting multiplied by Masters of Destruction.

Hope that helps clear up my above statement!

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[Reaverman]

1 Bulkhead Hits: No Damage Dealt
2-5 Solid Hit: -1 Damage -1 Crew to target ship
6 Critical Hit: As Solid Hit, but also roll on the systems table

A 6 is a critical hit, not a solid hit. The damage it does is the same as a solid hit, but since it is a critical hit, this damage cannot be reduced by GEG.

1 Bulkhead Hits: No Damage Dealt
2-5 Solid Hit: -1 Damage -1 Crew to target ship
6 Cri tical Hit: As Solid Hit, but also roll on the systems table

 

[Reaverman]

The ':' of the Damage table is used as a grammatical defining mark of the table. Therefore, the line...

Critical Hit: As Solid Hit, and roll on the systems table

...means that a Critical Hit is defined as having the same effects of a Solid Hit but also rolls on the systems table.

This means that the term 'Critical Hit' (which is what ignores a GEG altogether) imposes the same effects of a Solid Hit (-1 Damage/-1 Crew) and gains additional stuff from a separate table. Even though it refers to the Solid Hit for information, it is still a Critical Hit for all purposes; such as ignoring the GEG or getting multiplied by Masters of Destruction.

Hope that helps clear up my above statement!

Cheers all,
Bry

Right, that makes it clearer now

 

[katadder]

well a 6 roll is a solid hit plus rolls on the systems damage table, so the solid hit as per GEG rules would be ignored if within the tolerances for that GEG but any damage rolled from the crit table would count, this would also apply to masters of destruction as the solid hit gets doubled (not tripled) but any additional damage rolled from the crits table is trebled, and this really by your own wording as a 6 counts as a solid hit with a roll on the crits table, not a crit in itself.

 

[Burger]

well a 6 roll is a solid hit plus rolls on the systems damage table

This part is wrong. A critical hit is a critical hit.

The damage caused by a critical hit, is the same as a solid hit plus a roll on the systems damage table. But, it is still a critical hit, therefore all damage is "damage caused by a critical hit" including the original 1 damage/1 crew.

 

[Ripple]

Wow, lots a back and forth here.

The Mongoose has spoken and it seems that a six rolled on the damage table is a critical hit. The reference to the solid hit is just a way of not rewriting the 1 damage/1 crew (modified by applicable multipliers).

ie
6 Critical Hit: 1 damage/1 crew plus one roll on the critical effects table.

Seems clear to me, but when second edition comes along we really need to strain through the use of language and remove muliple uses of the same terms. Just gets too confusing in the set of stereo instructions most games rules resemble.

Ripple

 

[TGT]

so you get the normal DD for bolters, single hit for pulsars for normal hits but the initial solid hit and all critical damage caused is tripled or DD respectively ? makes sense to me

 

[Obsidian]

Sounds like something they might want to correct in the V2 release to make more clear. So the table should look like this

1 Bulkhead Hits: No Damage Dealt
2-5 Solid Hit: -1 Damage -1 Crew to target ship
6 Cri tical Hit: -1 Damage -1 Crew also roll on the systems table

Will cost slightly more in printing costs I guess, but it certainly eliminates the confusion.