About the God learner's secret...

[indrodar]

If you want to know what the GL Secret is, get Nick Brooke very, very drunk. He knows what it is but only when he's completely blotto. True story.

Roll on Tentacles! I had planned to get very drunk with Nick anyway, now I have all the more reason...

 

[simonh]

Since some people have great difficulty accepting the "it's a game" interpretation (see simonh's flames above)

I appologise if I seem flamey, that's realy not my intention. As an interpretation for the purposes of your own game, go for it. It's your game, to do with as you like.


Simon Hibbs

 

[gamesmeister]

If you want to know what the GL Secret is, get Nick Brooke very, very drunk. He knows what it is but only when he's completely blotto. True story.

Roll on Tentacles! I had planned to get very drunk with Nick anyway, now I have all the more reason...

Once you find out, will you just tell us, or do we have to get you very, very drunk too?

 

[simonh]

Once you find out, will you just tell us, or do we have to get you very, very drunk too?

Maybe the secret is "Heroquest while drunk".

 

[Voriof]

Since some people have great difficulty accepting the "it's a game" interpretation (see simonh's flames above)

I appologise if I seem flamey, that's realy not my intention. As an interpretation for the purposes of your own game, go for it. It's your game, to do with as you like.


Simon Hibbs

...but don't expect your suppostion and YGMV to be viewed as canonical. If it works for your game fine, but don't expect everyone to be playing by your house rules. As I said before, its not 1981 anymore. :roll:

Jeff

 

[The King]

If you want to know what the GL Secret is, get Nick Brooke very, very drunk. He knows what it is but only when he's completely blotto. True story.

I am at a disadvantage as I don't drink alcohol anymore (though I used to live a long time in Germany).

 

[Quire]

If you want to know what the GL Secret is, get Nick Brooke very, very drunk. He knows what it is but only when he's completely blotto. True story.

I am at a disadvantage as I don't drink alcohol anymore (though I used to live a long time in Germany).

But the point is to get NICK drunk. You might get something out of it, being sober in such a circumstance.

- Q

 

[Quire]

Once you find out, will you just tell us, or do we have to get you very, very drunk too?

Tell you what, meister, get me very, very drunk - as long as you're paying - then I'll let you know the secret about finding out the secret.

:wink:

- Q

 

[indrodar]

Maybe the secret is "Heroquest while drunk".

Now that's a three-word answer to describe Tentacles.

(Great con in Germany btw for those who haven't heard of it. End of May - can't recommend it enough!)

 

[richaje]

Now that's a three-word answer to describe Tentacles. (Great con in Germany btw for those who haven't heard of it. End of May - can't recommend it enough!)

I strongly recommend that folk make it. I will be running a big freeform entitled "Between the Dragon and the Deep Blue Sea" - set around the Iron Wars between the Middle Sea Empire, the EWF and everyone else. We have a pretty spectacular cast - Greg Stafford, Sandy Petersen, Simon Bray, Nick Brooke and many others. Lots of high entertainment.

Jeff

 

[frogspawner]

Greg's said repeatedly over the past fifteen years that that isn't and never was the God Learner secret.
...
In one sense, the God Learners had no regard for the consequences and repercussions of their actions. Usually, Heroquests are done for a community. The God Learners performed them for personal gain and aggrandizement. Also, the God Learners were willing to use tools and equipment on these little jaunts that no right-thinking Quester would use. Enacting a Troll HeroQuest and bring a piece of the Sun with you to defeat the Dark Mother. Going off on a Heal-Heler quest and instead, bringing back one of Heler's Wounds - and using this continual flow of magic to power magical weapons. It is thought that the permanently empowered bladesharp swords employed by the clanking city drew their power from Heler. The windless Typhoons were one of the side effects of this.
...
P.S. You know that Jeff's [richaje] the acknowledged Go-To guy for the God Learners and the Middle Sea Empire and most things God Learnerish for us HeroQuest writers, right?

Thanks for these helpful comments - a practical answer to The King's original question. I guess GS has spent about 15 years denying it because in '88 the RQ3 Glorantha Book came out, which IMHO caused the 3-word theory (it was certainly my only basis for it). And, er, no, I didn't know richaje was the God Learner expert.

I appologise if I seem flamey, that's realy not my intention.

It's ok. When I mentioned in passing I didn't want to get into this debate again, you did three lengthy posts quoting me and rubbishing the idea - so I did feel flamed. For what it's worth, I didn't intend to offend anyone either. Soz.

Ironically, I don't even need any version of the secret for 'my' Glorantha, or have any particular interest in it.

Still, after all the Heat, I think we've got a little bit of Light out of this debate, too. And an excuse for some serious drinking - and that has to be a good thing, right?

 

[indrodar]

I strongly recommend that folk make it. I will be running a big freeform entitled "Between the Dragon and the Deep Blue Sea" - set around the Iron Wars between the Middle Sea Empire, the EWF and everyone else. We have a pretty spectacular cast - Greg Stafford, Sandy Petersen, Simon Bray, Nick Brooke and many others. Lots of high entertainment.

Jeff

And I am very much looking forward to it. Let the scenery chewing commence!!!

 

[The King]

Man, the USA already have a flag on the moon and you're still playing and drinking in a castle.

 

[The King]

Partially. Yes. In one sense, the God Learners had no regard for the consequences and repercussions of their actions. Usually, Heroquests are done for a community. The God Learners performed them for personal gain and aggrandizement. Also, the God Learners were willing to use tools and equipment on these little jaunts that no right-thinking Quester would use. Enacting a Troll HeroQuest and bring a piece of the Sun with you to defeat the Dark Mother. Going off on a Heal-Heler quest and instead, bringing back one of Heler's Wounds - and using this continual flow of magic to power magical weapons. It is thought that the permanently empowered bladesharp swords employed by the clanking city drew their power from Heler. The windless Typhoons were one of the side effects of this.

While this is not the secret this is an interesting insight at how they performed and succeeded in heroquests.
I think we just need more info like this if we have to play correctly god learners in runequest.

 

[Voriof]

Thanks for these helpful comments - a practical answer to The King's original question. I guess GS has spent about 15 years denying it because in '88 the RQ3 Glorantha Book came out, which IMHO caused the 3-word theory (it was certainly my only basis for it). And, er, no, I didn't know richaje was the God Learner expert.

I am currently looking through my Genetela: Crucible of the Hero Wars, the RQIII books in question and the Deluxe RuneQuest. I cannot find any quote that says, "The God Learners learned that Glorantha is just a game."

If you could find me some quote along those lines, because I can't seem to find one in my collection it woudl be greatly appreciated. I do dimly seem to recall someone who was not Greg saying that as a joke in an old Reaching Moon or Wyrms Footnotes or Different Worlds but I can't seem to find it in any of the core references.

Jeff

 

[frogspawner]

I was going to let this one lie, but I quoted the offending text earlier in this thread. So, since you ask, here it is again...

The RQ3 Glorantha Book (Stafford, Petersen & Dunn, Avalon Hill 1988, p24-25) says of the God Learners:
1) "[Their] unusual magical methods began with a novel way of looking at the world. The secret is dead with its initiates, but was evidently called the RuneQuest Sight. It apparently allowed initiates to see the world as a series of patterns, relationships, and repetitive reflections which could be organized according to the now famous Runes." or, put another way, they knew the RuneQuest rules (Initiate God Learner = Rules-Lawyer?).
2) "The detachment required by the most avid adherents of RuneQuest Sight blinded them to many of the realities of a compassionate and created world. Their HeroQuesters lost touch with the basic rule of Arkat: 'No questing without respect and humility.' Rather than recognizing unique living entities they saw a thing of numbers, abilities, and potential - mere raw material. Many individuals with this blindness came to power early." or, they didn't care enough about character (Rune-level God Learner = Power Gamer?).
3) "The final result was catastrophe. The various kingdoms making up the Middle Sea Empire were each destroyed, by dooms similar only in their totality. ... Nature itself revolted against the God Learners in many places." or, they were erased by the world itself (The Creator = Author/GM?).
4) "Another terrible secret was avenged by doom guardians calling themselves the Gift Carriers of the Sending Gods. Everyone who was privy to the Forbidden Secret, or who was kin to them, or who might have witnessed or heard about the secret, was hunted down and destroyed." or, any characters that act like the world isn't real can be blatted by the GM!

The RQ2 RuneQuest rulebook (Perrin, Stafford et al, Chaosium 1980, p54) says of the Illusion rune: "The Puppeteer Troupe, the major cult of the Father of Illusion, always claimed that this was the First Rune, for without Illusion, there would be none of us to think we ever were. They refuse to explain further." - perhaps the Gift Carriers didn't find them!

Phew - that was a lot of typing. See why I favour the "Three Word Answer" shorthand?

Hope this helps.

But I also see the Glorantha Book (on Page One!) prominently says "We suggest a simple rule to keep this situation [bad roleplaying] under control. The notorious God Learner movement... (etc)", equating the GLs with an RQ rule. Not exactly the same thing, but it sets up readers to think about the game-system when considering the God Learners.

And before anyone attacks me again, I'm just answering the guys question, 'cos he wants to know, ok?

 

[Voriof]

I was going to let this one lie, but I quoted the offending text earlier in this thread. So, since you ask, here it is again...

The RQ3 Glorantha Book (Stafford, Petersen & Dunn, Avalon Hill 1988, p24-25) says of the God Learners:
1) "[Their] unusual magical methods began with a novel way of looking at the world. The secret is dead with its initiates, but was evidently called the RuneQuest Sight. It apparently allowed initiates to see the world as a series of patterns, relationships, and repetitive reflections which could be organized according to the now famous Runes." or, put another way, they knew the RuneQuest rules (Initiate God Learner = Rules-Lawyer?).
2) "The detachment required by the most avid adherents of RuneQuest Sight blinded them to many of the realities of a compassionate and created world. Their HeroQuesters lost touch with the basic rule of Arkat: 'No questing without respect and humility.' Rather than recognizing unique living entities they saw a thing of numbers, abilities, and potential - mere raw material. Many individuals with this blindness came to power early." or, they didn't care enough about character (Rune-level God Learner = Power Gamer?).
3) "The final result was catastrophe. The various kingdoms making up the Middle Sea Empire were each destroyed, by dooms similar only in their totality. ... Nature itself revolted against the God Learners in many places." or, they were erased by the world itself (The Creator = Author/GM?).
4) "Another terrible secret was avenged by doom guardians calling themselves the Gift Carriers of the Sending Gods. Everyone who was privy to the Forbidden Secret, or who was kin to them, or who might have witnessed or heard about the secret, was hunted down and destroyed." or, any characters that act like the world isn't real can be blatted by the GM!

The RQ2 RuneQuest rulebook (Perrin, Stafford et al, Chaosium 1980, p54) says of the Illusion rune: "The Puppeteer Troupe, the major cult of the Father of Illusion, always claimed that this was the First Rune, for without Illusion, there would be none of us to think we ever were. They refuse to explain further." - perhaps the Gift Carriers didn't find them!

Phew - that was a lot of typing. See why I favour the "Three Word Answer" shorthand?

Hope this helps.

But I also see the Glorantha Book (on Page One!) prominently says "We suggest a simple rule to keep this situation [bad roleplaying] under control. The notorious God Learner movement... (etc)", equating the GLs with an RQ rule. Not exactly the same thing, but it sets up readers to think about the game-system when considering the God Learners.

And before anyone attacks me again, I'm just answering the guys question, 'cos he wants to know, ok?

So, its never actually stated, "the God Learners Know That Glorantha Is Just a Game." Good. That's what I thought. Just your inferences. I'd say they are more like Gordon Geeko from "Wall Street" types.

Lets just check our baggage at the door and get on with things then, shall we?

Jeff

 

[frogspawner]

It doesn't need to be stated. It's clear enough.

Relax - it is only a game...

 

[Voriof]

It doesn't need to be stated. It's clear enough.

Relax - it is only a game...

Clear to you, perhaps. But its not explictly stated - and it is explictly stated by folks who should know that this is NOT the God Learner Secret.

So... relax. Let go. Its not 1981 anymore.

Jeff

 

[B_Steele]

I know that in anything I write for Glorantha, the God Learner Secret definitely is not a fourth-wall, tongue-in-cheek cuteness like that.

This is just a game, true, but its internal components (EWF, GL, Hsunchen, Ducks, etc.) do not believe that. We want Glorantha to be taken seriously as a good game setting, and that is just too silly, as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers all,
Bry