A resource system?

[Bailywolf]

In reading back over REH's Conan stories, I am struck by how little a part money plays in the stories. Money- or rather wealth- is a factor as a general concept, but as for actual amounts of money (as in "I'll pay you 100 sheckles to bring me Conan's head!") are pretty much completely lacking.

Now, I haven't really burrowed though the books looking for references to specific amounts of currency, but the general sense I have is that REH pretty much blew past such details, dealing with wealth as a general level. A hungry young Conan could be motivated by wealth or jewels... only to blow them on women and wine in mere weeks. Wealth is very transitory, and abstract in REH's world... the action is much more important than any 'dollar value' on loot or gear.

A resource check system like D20 Modern uses seems pretty in-line with the flavor of Conan stories... Wealth as a score which is added to a rolled d20 normally and compared to the DC of the item in question. Bargaining or Intimidation can be used for synergy bonuses to reduce this check... and permanently expending the Wealth bonus can allow you to Take 10 or even 20 on purchasing rolls.

Thoughts?

-B

 

[Anonymous]

What we have included is the reduction of wealth through carousing, gambling and profligate spending between adventures.

Going for an even more abstract approach might work as well, though you'd need to make the system fluid to account for the highs and lows of adventurer wealth.

 

[slaughterj]

I've thought about doing something more ethereal for money, but not a wealth system particularly. For instance, while in games like D&D where one might keep track of each silver, other games like Star Wars seem to have run more wide open. I'm thinking of saying things like "the small trunk you stole from the temple in Shadizar had a large amount of coins and some small gems as well", and if characters adventure for a bit without any real monetary gains, say "the few coins left in your pouch are barely enough for a dry place to sleep and a cold meal". But I don't know if that's more trouble than just doing a regular accounting method - it would help solve the "let me grab the mugger guy's sword and belt pouch in alley" stuff that doesn't seem very adventurous.

Are there price guides in the Conan RPG?

 

[Jason Durall]

Are there price guides in the Conan RPG?

Yes, a couple of pages long.

 

[Anonymous]

We see Conan go on an extended shopping spree in John Maddox Roberts' CONAN THE ROGUE (aka CONAN AND THE MALTESE FALCON, LOL), but I don't remember specific item prices being mentioned. Over and over in the Jordan pastiches, however, we see exact numbers of coin spent on carousing: 2 coppers for cheap ale, 4 coppers to rent a room for a "turn of the glass" + 1-3 sp for a trull (with 3 being exceptionally spendy for a non-courtesan).

My players are money hungry, LOL. They are tight-fisted misers, too, complaining about hiring desert guides for a sp/day (none of them have Survival, LOL), and are enforcing a "party fund" that everyone contribute a share of the spoils to. They are used to D&D and other games where money is held onto until spent deliberately. Through their related and allied NPCs, I'm trying to get across the concept of "easy come, easy go" and "we may all be dead tomorrow, so let's live it up until then!" :wink:

I'm not really sure the free spending rule of Conan is entirely accurate or appropriate being set at 50%. Not that anybody has 50 sp or more to their name, yet. Specific savings plans are mentioned as being exceptions to the rule, so that would include a party fund, at least until someone decides to question the character of the treasurer (probably after being denied a loan guaranteed by a lien against future loot). :twisted:

I just know that stripping players of hard-earned loot can create feelings of resentment among them.

 

[Bailywolf]

The reason I would use something like a resource mechanic would be to remove the focus of the game from actual money amounts- my players have fallen into the same old D&D "how much are his boots worth!" sort of mentality, and I wanted to break them out of it.

A resource mechanic would give them a nice reward curve: looting and stealing = better gear. I'd make Wealth a floating bonus rather than a level-fixed one, and reduce it by a few rolled dice between adventures when they have had time to sit idle and blow their money on drink and doxies.

It keeps acquiring wealth as a motivator, but abstracts it away from Un-Conan-Like book keeping.

-B

 

[VincentDarlage]

Money- or rather wealth- is a factor as a general concept, but as for actual amounts of money (as in "I'll pay you 100 sheckles to bring me Conan's head!") are pretty much completely lacking.

Now, I haven't really burrowed though the books looking for references to specific amounts of currency, but the general sense I have is that REH pretty much blew past such details...

The only such reference I can think of right off hand is in Chapter 2 of 'Beyond the Black River.'

The faces of the soldiers were pallid in the torchlight.

'That's Tiberias,' blurted one. 'I recognize that fur-trimmed tunic. Valerius here owes me five lunas... I wagered he'd come back without his head.'

Apparently Aquilonia uses lunas as money, though whether a luna is gold, silver, copper or whatever is impossible to determine from that passage alone.

 

[Ian Sturrock]

The only such reference I can think of right off hand is in Chapter 2 of 'Beyond the Black River.'

There's a couple more -- 300 pieces of silver for a high-born slave girl stolen to order (from 'The Tower of the Elephant') and (IIRC) 10,000 gold lunas as King Conan's get-out-of-jail bribe in 'The Scarlet Citadel'.

 

[Ethan the Red]

First off, great thread!

As to the issue of spending 50% of funds on carousing- and players that dislike it due to "party fund" mentality- ague with them. YOU'RE FREEKIN' ADVENTURERS!!! You need ale, wine, the comforts of flesh!

Work it into the game a little if you must by having bets with NPC's. Don't mention money amounts- i.e. "I bet I can shoot that vulture off that tree".. or "...you can't outride me son of a Hyrkanian dog!" This method gives you "frames of reference" which later allows you to play trump cards like- "Remember that bet on the horse race/archery competition?" Remember those wenches in the inn??" THEY ALL COST MONEY!!!

Fortunately, my group doesn't bother with wealth or party funds because we're more or less on the same page about this stuff... (I hope)... and if we weren't I would implement the above plan.

As for a "wealth" roll- the idea intrigues me. Perhaps it could be a d20 roll something to the effect of wealth bonus = reputation level with the following modifiers-

Synergy bonus for gather information, diplomacy, or intimidate (whichever is appropriate but +1 for every 5 ranks)

And finally, a discretionary bonus by the GM something roughly around +1 for every 500 or 1,000 silver (or whatever) dropped. Creative or forgiving GM's may also add a bonus for nobles or scholars, or to thieves who have good connections...

DC's might look like the following-

DC 5- Purchasing stale wine, and a bed that may or may not have lice.

DC 10- Buying a decent meal with a few rounds of good beer/wine and procuring a companion to sleep with. Bartering for a short sword.

DC 15- Buying a sturdy piece of equipment (big sword, bow, light armor, etc.), or a decent riding horse. Staying at a nice brothel, or a decent inn for a week.

DC 20- Renting a room for a month and feeding oneself in a large metropolis (Agraphur, Messantia, Tarantia, etc.) Trading for a heavy warhorse with saddle, or buying heavier armor. Buying customized weapons such as customized bows. Simple sorcerous components

DC 25- Purchasing Lesser property (i.e. a homestead in the Bossonian Marches), or small ship. Equipping or feeding a small group of armed men (under 50). Obtaining a small amount of Lotus.

DC 30- Obtaining a title to a good sized manor house or large ship. Procuring a goodly amount of lotus or alchemical devices. Equipping or feeding a larger group of armed men (100 - 200)

Taking 10 should generally be allowed unless it obvious the players have NO money. That is to say most of the time you can find a decent in for a night with not much in the way of luxury. Taking 20 should only be allowed if the players have LOTS of money, and even then it should be noted that they lose LOTS of said money.

Hmmm.. I'll end my rant here because it already is too long- BUT something to mull over....

 

[kintire]

Actually, I don't like the Mongoose wealth rules. Its all very well for Conan to squander his wealth, but we don't all have to play Conan. What about the ascetic priest? What about the careful noble with a strong sense of duty to his family? Are they squandering wealth on wenches?

On the other hand, it doesn't really matter. Wealth in Conan is of little importance, because you can't buy power. Short of Akbitanean weapons, equipment has little impact on character power, so the pressure on keeping track of it is off. The only exception is alchemy: but I have no problem with scholars having freer access to that. quite the reverse, in fact.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I wouldn't want "resource rolls" or whatever you'd call them simply because they're too abstract, bringing another meta element into the game, and that disturbs my immersion.

Hoarding your loot is a habit acquired by most other RPGs and computer games. Some RPG settings have outrageous monetary values, where two saddle bags brim-full of gold won't last you a year of very modest living (and yes, gold IS the most precious metal there). Others (like D&D) integrate wealth as a progress-tied resource which must be used in the most efficient way or your character will suck. And so forth.

However, so far we've never had real problems with it in game. New players may still be conditioned by other games as mentioned above, but they catch on pretty quickly when they see how the rest of the party blows their money.

We're getting a couple of new players right now and they're already looking forward to Spending Their Reward On Ale And Whores rather than saving up for the next Badass Ring of Zappery.

 

[Demetrio]

I'd hazard a guess that a luna is a silver piece, probably not too adulterated if the Aquilonians use it as a coin of the realm. A gold luna would likely be a coin of the same weight, but made of gold, obviously... and thus worth more than its silver counterpart.

Historically we had florins, doubloons, ducats and so forth as coinage and although they varied in value (pirates often having complicated tables of exchange to calculate each man's rightful share), wealth is so general and vague in Conan that one might allow coins roughly equivalent value between states and just give names for flavour... ducats in Corinthia perhaps and doubloons in Zingara with florins being the common coin in Argos.

 

[treeplanter]

Personnaly I don't bother with cash in my game. I just decide if the player have cash for this and that according to my humor lol

 

[Demetrio]

What about the ascetic priest? What about the careful noble with a strong sense of duty to his family? Are they squandering wealth on wenches?

The one is squandering his wealth on his god, in whatever manner be it gifting money to the poor, or donating his wealth to his temple. The other squanders his wealth on his family... he 'invests' it for his son, or hands the bulk over to his father, or uses it to improve his estates. Regardless, it is 'consumed' and unavailable for buying such goodies as new weapons and armour.

 

[warzen]

A resource check system like D20 Modern uses seems pretty in-line with the flavor of Conan stories... Wealth as a score which is added to a rolled d20 normally and compared to the DC of the item in question. Bargaining or Intimidation can be used for synergy bonuses to reduce this check... and permanently expending the Wealth bonus can allow you to Take 10 or even 20 on purchasing rolls.

Thoughts?

-B

IIRC, True20 has a wealth system also, but it was simpler than that.
Everything below you wealth rate was affordable, at your level and you would lose a wealth level, and you only had to roll when the item had a superior wealth value (not that sure about the rules).

This was also used to increase your wealth. For example, your PCs would only take real value loot, instead of loading themselves with crap that would not increase their wealth level.

And between session, ask them to exchange wealth level for XPs.

W.

 

[kintire]

The one is squandering his wealth on his god, in whatever manner be it gifting money to the poor, or donating his wealth to his temple. The other squanders his wealth on his family... he 'invests' it for his son, or hands the bulk over to his father, or uses it to improve his estates.

Are they? says who?

The point, without getting picky with the examples, was that a player should be able to roleplay his character. And if his character is one who does not squander wealth, why should the rules tell him he must?

 

[Demetrio]

Surely it's life that 'says who'...

Money just goes on 'stuff'. Taxes, property upkeep, wife's pin money, daughter's dowry, son's gambling debts, father's funeral, upkeep of the family crypt, new pair of shoes, etc. Aha! You say, my character is an aesthete who drinks only water and eats enough plain and simple fare sufficient to his wants. He sleeps beneath the stars etc etc... Well then, why does he want all that money in the first place? Roleplaying and all that. If players want to hoard cash then they must accept that
they will have to work to do so and that's often boring (every so often it can make a nice change to go through a character's accounts I suppose but generally...)

I think the reason it's 'in the rules' is because it is in keeping with the tales where Conan generally begins either impoverished or has sufficient for his immediate needs and little more.

 

[kintire]

Money just goes on 'stuff'. Taxes, property upkeep, wife's pin money, daughter's dowry, son's gambling debts, father's funeral, upkeep of the family crypt, new pair of shoes, etc. Aha! You say, my character is an aesthete who drinks only water and eats enough plain and simple fare sufficient to his wants. He sleeps beneath the stars etc etc... Well then, why does he want all that money in the first place?

we're not talking about your starting cash, we're talking about the treasure you lifted from that ancient tombn, representing more wealth than you earn in a year. I can't see that vansihing in a few months on routine living. As for the last question: there are thousands of answers, and many characters will have them.

I think the reason it's 'in the rules' is because it is in keeping with the tales where Conan generally begins either impoverished or has sufficient for his immediate needs and little more.

I think this is in fact the heart of it. Its in the rules because Conan does it: and ite trying to force every character in the Hyborian age to behave exactly as Conan does. I don't think this is good.

Also, I'm not utterly convinced that Conan DOES do it, at any rate later in his career. Its true he begins a lot of the tales impoverished, but this isn't always because of binges: disasters and betrayels also feature. And he begins several tales doing fine: A Witch Shall be Born, for example, where he is captain of the royal guard in a wealthy caravan city. Or People of the Black Circle when he is a successful warleader with many chiefs reporting to him. Or, of course the various tales where he begins as King of Aquilonia!

I just dislike mandating character behaviour like that.

 

[Demetrio]

Sure but do you want players to be keeping track of their wealth? It's generally tedious.

And after a couple of good hauls, they'll have no real need to adventure for cash. Then again, where will they keep their coin? Cash isn't easily transported. Convert it into jewels and they can be easily lost or robbed and you have to reconvert them into cash to buy anything. Convert it into bricks and mortar and it's immobile, vulnerable to fire and other forms of destruction. There isn't really anywhere especially safe to keep it. Mercentile banks might exist that could offer notes of hand but they'd deal with their own class and rulers of kingdoms, not petty adventurers. And of course a paper note carries risks of its own.

I just think it's easier to say, 'hanging onto your wealth in a readily spendable form is very difficult' and to make 'investment' a chancy business.

A Witch Shall be Born, for example, where he is captain of the royal guard in a wealthy caravan city

And is immediately dispossessed and reduced to pennilessness (and nailed to a cross for good margin.

In some adventures he isn't broke at the start but he doesn't often have much cash - or indeed much property at all. And I think that's mainly because there's not much he can do with it other than spend it on wine, women and song. Maybe he had a nice house, being Captain of the Guard. But he lost it quick. It's just another method of 'disappearing wealth', surely?

 

[treeplanter]

Me aggree with Demetrio 100%

Cash is a waste of time. I love my RPG session hundred time more since we don't have those 1 hours shopping session. Just plain stupid.