A New Universe for ACTA's

[Jean]

Ben2, I can tell you that the different "Subject Races" will be part of Traveller. They are a long-established part of the SFU Klingon history. Many of the Subject Races were part of the empire the "Old Kings" had and when they vanished, the Klingons filled the void. Slirdarians and Hilidarians do serve as Marines (the SFU's answer to red shirts). Dunkars make excellent administrative staff. Cromargs make excellent technicians. The one Subject Race that rebelled had its homeworld bombed back to the Stone Age.

Why would one ignore a good tool or pass it over? And remember, that if one can channel the energies of a talented Subject Race being, then one not only gains those skills, one prevents said being from using those talents in less positive ways. Furthermore, the Subject Races have the example of what happened to the Vergarians -- who would risk that?

No, this wasn't in TOS. Neither were all of the "normal" Klingons: the accountants, the teachers, the librarians, the cooks. What we saw were those of the "Warrior Caste" and that's the image we have of them -- and that much of the Federation has as well.

Were there mutinies? Yes. Were they common? No. Was there the occasional traitor? Yes. Was it common? No. The consequences were far too dire for most people to contemplate with the likelihood of success very low. That didn't stop those Subject Race beings from retiring and moving to other places such as the WYN Cluster or some neutral worlds or even the far-flung outposts of the Federation when there was peace between the Federation and the Empire.

Does that help some?

 

[godsgopher]

The real heart of the issue here is that this is not TOS. Its not the Motion Picture, or any of the following Movies. Its a separate setting built by a number of fans who wanted to explore starship combat using one of the first settings to really address it. The Star Fleet Universe is a fantastic setting, but its obvious to me that the biggest hurdle most people are going to have is getting over the fact its not based on the TV shows we all know and love.

 

[Poi]

It is based on TOS, but it has grown beyond it in a different way to TNG/DS9/Voyager/Enterprise.

 

[Poi]

As this thread has reached 17 pages, can we have our own board for ACTA:SF now please?

 

[Da Boss]

The Star Fleet Universe is a fantastic setting, but its obvious to me that the biggest hurdle most people are going to have is getting over the fact its not based on the TV shows we all know and love.

It also alot of non SFB guys and girls (hopefully) not being sure what is in from Star Trek they are familiar with and what is not - hence lots of questions

I don't mind the mutiny / subject races thing too much - it sounds like the empire is more like the Terran Empire from the MU which also had agonisers and pain booths IIRC.

in SFU - do any of the subject races every rise above "crewman" and command their own ships etc?

Int erms of arguments I not really convinced need much of your population to staff the fleets - sounds to me like there are lots of lazy Klingons!!! Now using subject races as phaser fodder in ground wars makes perfect sense!

 

[Nerroth]

The real heart of the issue here is that this is not TOS. Its not the Motion Picture, or any of the following Movies. Its a separate setting built by a number of fans who wanted to explore starship combat using one of the first settings to really address it. The Star Fleet Universe is a fantastic setting, but its obvious to me that the biggest hurdle most people are going to have is getting over the fact its not based on the TV shows we all know and love.

While that might be one potential barrier, I feel that another that might be an issue is the kind of expectations that people familiar with SFB (or to be more specific, familiar with how SFB was "back in the day"; the way they remember it being from a certain point in time) and who (for whatever reason) aren't familiar with how things work in games like FC or Starmada, might place on it.


Things like security stations, Klingon mutinies, boom/saucer separations and whatnot were jettisoned in both Federation Commander and Starmada; the only scenario that even features a separated saucer is a one-off conversion of an SFB scenario published back in Captain's Log #25, and is not intended as an excuse to shoe-horn saucer separations into the full game.


Even things like fighters and carriers; it's not just that they were kept out of FC, but that many people wanted them to be so. And even in Borders of Madness, I would sooner expect any carriers offered there to be far more streamlined than the full-blown warts-and-all creatures they can be in SFB.

If Starmada ever gets some form of carrier combat, that would be one thing; though I'd be very wary to see them take over the tactical landscape by their presence. The same is true here; if ACtA:SF ever goes into carriers (which, at best, I'm on the fence about personally) it should not be at the expense of everything else.


In any case, if we have people who are coming in from outside the SFU entirely tripping over the expectations of those who are looking for details of granulation that are in only one of the pre-existing tactical combat games in the setting (and, in some cases, are not overly missed in the other two) it could make getting to grips with what ACtA:SF may actually will end up offering that much trickier.

 

[BFalcon]

Don't forget, though, that the US mobilisation lasted what... 3 years of war? Not having my SFB stuff handy, I forget how long the General War lasts, but there was also the Klingon/Fed war and the Klingon/Romulan wars prior to that, wasn't there?

All in all, it is part of the SFU so I'm not going to dispute the whys and wherefores to heavily, just asking if it will be, more than anything...

And I never got to move onto the larger-scale F&E... it was hard enough finding SFB in this country, let alone anything related.

 

[MarkDawg]

Hold on yoiu guys lost me why would it not be TOS from the pic of the ship I saw it look like it was TOS era. Did J.J. Abrams make an appearance in this thread? Has Vulcan be imploded by a tiny black hole?

 

[BFalcon]

Some very good points regarding FC and Armada - I've been out of it for a few years, so need to catch up a bit.

I'd like to see fighters, but would be happy for them to be compressed into "flights" or "squadrons" to make life easier. The separation of the Booms and Saucers were rarely used, but part of the original canon of TOS, thanks to the Franz Joseph designs and everything based off them (like SFB was - hence the DN, Tug, SC and DD from the technical manual).

I think the design team will need to decide whether they want to base their game off of an already-cut-down version or to re-cut-down SFB and, quite honestly, that's something only they can decide or comment on (with the exception of Steve Cole, who's The Man where SFB is concerned - and he seems to be letting Mongoose do their own thing).

I agree with the not comparing it to the TOS series, I shouldn't have tried to do so - I was trying to help in doing so, but I guess it didn't...

 

[BFalcon]

Hold on yoiu guys lost me why would it not be TOS from the pic of the ship I saw it look like it was TOS era. Did J.J. Abrams make an appearance in this thread? Has Vulcan be imploded by a tiny black hole?

It is based off TOS and the period material, such as the Franz Joseph manual and deckplans and was created long before TNG or the films came out... therefore we have smooth-headed klingons who are very aggressive (edit: and treacherous) and the Romulans who are very imperialistic, but the timeline is slightly different, to allow a greater range of fighting and fleet action...

As I understand it, (someone help me out here) the Organian Treaty either didn't happen, or collapsed soon after it was made and practically all neighbouring factions have fought at one time or another. The Federation has boosted Starfleet's strength above what we saw in TOS and (although there used to only be the basic designs) we have a much wider range available in all the fleets in SFB than in pretty much any other game... representing the various fleets making variants as needed, or trying to overcome specific problems.

Two examples of this is the Drones and Fighters we see in SFB - both have been introduced as different means of attack than the basic direct-fire weapons seen in the series (and the plasma torpedo seen in one episode).

Basically, consider the SFU to be TOS, but don't count on the history being the same and also expect more depth to the races than you see on the screen. And more ships.

 

[Nerroth]

While they could decide to do their own sub-set of the wider array of options available in the Star Fleet Universe, I personally would consider going too far with that notion to risk re-inventing the wheel; the FC take on things (which is not just about taking things out of SFB; some of the dynamics put in to that game arguably add to the on-table experience in ways SFB doesn't) is a fine basis of comparison.

That said, Starmada already tunes things a little differently; not least in having things like proximity photons and hidden cloaks, neither of which are in FC.

But, yeah; we'll find out when we find out.


Speaking of the Alpha Octant timeline, the Organian Treaty did hold, at least for a while; though the Organians weren't able to use their powers along the entire border, just in the vicinity of their home planet. (That was still good enough to allow Organia to act as a neutral location for the Feds and Klingons to jaw-jaw... at least until the war-war part broke out.)

 

[Jean]

MarkDawg, the Star Fleet Universe is based on TOS. However, it has diverged from that in the history and depth of its universe. We are limited in what we can include -- only things from TOS and TAS that we had already. So we developed the universe with our own empires and species and their cultures.

We tried to make it internally logical and consistent. The Klingon culture may look brutish to us, but in the Klingon sourcebook, you find out what is "normal" for the society.

I'm not much help on the ACTA side, I fear. My specialty is the RPG/social history/society side. However, you cannot understand a society without understanding their history and their history frequently drives the types of ships that are developed.

Da Boss, members of the Subject Races do sometimes become officers. However, I haven't heard of one being in command of a ship. But you can see Marine Lieutenant Rakarra on the cover of Captain's Log #35 and in that story we find out there are Dunkar officers on the Demonslayer. The cover story is a good one and an excellent way to find out how the Subject Races serve the Empire.

 

[Da Boss]

Da Boss, members of the Subject Races do sometimes become officers. However, I haven't heard of one being in command of a ship. But you can see Marine Lieutenant Rakarra on the cover of Captain's Log #35 and in that story we find out there are Dunkar officers on the Demonslayer. The cover story is a good one and an excellent way to find out how the Subject Races serve the Empire.

Is that the big Gorilla looking dude - they look fun you woudl certianly not want them mutining !

 

[MarkDawg]

First off thanks for all the posts to help clear things up. What I am still murky on is all we have seen from Mongoose is a picture of a Starfleet ship how are you so sure that the universe will be SFU and not TOS or some other time line?

 

[Jean]

Da Boss, yes it is and no you wouldn't!

MarkDawg, I know it isn't going to be anything other than the Star Fleet Universe because I work for ADB and I'm their Marketing Director (and their RPG Line Editor and their BBS sys admin and their proofreader). You'll have to trust me to know fairly well the limits of our license and thus the joint venture.

 

[Rambler]

Hi Markdawg welcome to the discussion. You missed a couple of Press Release. This will be a Joint Venture deal between Amarillo Design Bureau and Mongoose Publishing to bring The Star Fleet Universe over to ACtA and Traveller.

That said you need to understand ADB's Licensing agreement with Paramount. ADB has a non terminating agreement to use material it had used in it games up to a point roughly 15 years ago. ADB also has a licensing deal with the Franz Joseph Estate. Both of these licensing were used to create a derivative work of Star Trek base on 3 main sources, The Original Series, The Animated Series and The Star Fleet Technical Manuel. There were a few other sources used but those 3 were the most recognized. As such ADB has a Trek background and starting point but the Star Fleet Universe went it own way after TOS ended.

As such this is not your fathers Trek it is a new setting. Also because of the Licensing Agreement with Paramount you will not see elements from the Movie Franchise or any of the subsequent series. What you will see is a carefully crafted and thoroughly checked back ground covering over 100 years of history.

Hope that answers some of your questions.

EDIT: Dang you Webmom your quicker on the draw agian!!!!

 

[MarkDawg]

Ohh I Trust I just hadn't seen it stated anywhere that it was going to be SFU maybe I missed that. I am sorry maybe I should have searched more for it.

 

[godsgopher]

Also Paramount has shot down the sales pitch to do the "Star Trek series" stuff. And I think this is a blessing. Otherwise we would get two years into the project and they would pull the license leaving us all stranded with nothing new coming out. Also the actual number of different kinds of ships we would have available would be horribly small. The Federation had a ton, but the Romulans only have 4, the Klingons 4, the Feringi 1, The Cardassians 3, the Dominion 3, so just what could be done would be very limited.

No, going with ADB was not only a good decision, it was the Right decision. Mongoose and ADB can enjoy years of working together, both Matt and Steve Cole seem to get along well which will be important years down the road. STU has so much source material from a war gaming aspect that its going to make a fantastic translation into a miniature game for ACTA's.

Star Trek from the series just doesn't have the material to make a diverse war game. But man is it great for a Social Drama.

 

[godsgopher]

Consequently perhaps this whole ACTA's Star fleet needs to be canceled, I'm not sure there is enough interest in the project seeing as this thread only has 18 pages....

 

[MarkDawg]

To be clear I never said it was a bad Idea to go with SFU I just hadn't realized that it was set in stone. As for ships with TNG era Paramount always let video games make new ships if Mongoose was to pay the cost to do TNG I am sure they would get the same treatment.

Anyway sorry for the Thread derail. Back on topic. I will be playing Klink for sure