A G'Vrahn thread!**now with added poll!**

[H]

the "discussions" on the G'Vrahn are threatening to overun some other threads.
general thoughts are split between utterly broken, and top end of priority.
continue on here to free up those other threads eh?

right, poll added. options are few because people have tons of ideas... keep it civil would you.
I'm saying drop e-mines to one shot. this ship is tough, but i don't think it's broken

 

[Da Boss]

perhaps a Poll

I think it is good but not broken - ahhhh I am defending a Narn - Great Maker forgive me.................

 

[Davesaint]

The G'vrann is a bit over the top. I mean why would you ever take a Bintak over one.


Dave

 

[H]

The G'vrann is a bit over the top. I mean why would you ever take a Bintak over one.


Dave

thats a different argument feller, but to make the BinTak a viable choice, give it the slow loading mines and a g'vrahn one shot..

 

[Centauri_Admiral]

See my other comments. I'm a little concerned that I've been over vehement with my anti-G'Vrahn protests, so hiff if I've offended you through them, then I am truely sorry, and that goes for Dave Fox as well, and anyone else who I've upset through the G'Vrahn rants.

Except for shane; coz I'm going to kick his hide on friday!lol

 

[H]

See my other comments. I'm a little concerned that I've been over vehement with my anti-G'Vrahn protests, so hiff if I've offended you through them, then I am truely sorry, and that goes for Dave Fox as well, and anyone else who I've upset through the G'Vrahn rants.

Except for shane; coz I'm going to kick his hide on friday!lol

nah, I'm not taking offence. when you ahte a ship, you hate a ship, I have made it my personal mission to destroy as meny demos as possible ;-)

I may use G'Vrahns to hunt them down!

 

[Jim?]

If people are going to insist that there is a top end and a bottom end in the war priority level; then perhaps there should be another level.

As for fixing the G'Vrahn, I agree with you, a one shot emine would go a long way towards fixing it. As it is supposed to be a fast cruiser, and probably gleans some ISA propulsion tech I don't think it should be made lumbering, but I certainly don't think it should have two turns. If it is going to have interceptors then they should be reduced to two. With those changes though, I would suggest that bumping its secondary weapons by a couple of AD on each would be an acceptable compromise.

Nothing really needs more than two interceptors, anyway... most of the time, any extras you get run out buy the third roll, anyway. Two turns does not bother me... but if you give it one turn then say that as it has improved propulsion tech, it gets a +2 CQ bonus for the purposes of come about rolls, then

It *does* punch hard, but even a single Liati can kill one, or drag it so badly out of position that the rest of the fleet (demos/darkners for example) can get behind it and tear it a new oriface. Given average dice rolling, a Liati with closed blast doors would take:-

3 Emine hits (6 damage after CBD)
6 Laser hits (dodge 3, 4 pts damage after CBD)
4 Mag gun hits (dodge 2, 4 pts damage after CBD)
3 Ion torp hits (dodge 1, 2 pts damage)

That's a total of 16 points of damage, on turn one, from a "broken" ship, which is not enough to cripple the Liati. There will also be 1 crit on average, which is *unlikely* to seriously hamper the Liati further. Turn 2, the Liati is behind the G'Vrahn and it's game over, as the G'Vrahn's secondaries suck and there is absolutely no way for it to bring it's front arc to bear again for the rest of the battle... so 1 Liati (a battle ship) should, on average, slaughter a G'Vrahn. Does that make the Liati "broken", too?

 

[Centauri_Admiral]

Well I did say, right at the very start of . . . . . one of the threads, that I would play the devils advocate, and say that maybe the liati needs tuning as well. Lee upton, as you well know jim, came on the receiving end of liatis most of the way through the campaign, I'm sure he would argue points about the liati in the same way I labour the G'Vrahn point. I guess its all a matter of perspective, and also how the person uses the ship.

We have two narn players in my club, keith and shane, and I find that a G'Vrahn in EITHER of their hands will be very well used to its maximum tactical effect. [Shane; that IS a compliment!lol]
The fact that my mate shane, won 5 out of his six games, has got to be a testament to his ability to wield his fleet. Ask lord david.lol

With regards to the liati versus the G'Vrahn, in a stand up fight without hyperspace, what I think people are failing to realise factor in is range. The G'Vrahn has a 45 inch emine, so it CAN afford to sit right on the back of the table and wait for the liati, which guarantees it at least 1 round of emine shooting. That can do a lot of damage to a liati, regardless of close blast doors, luck and dice rolling obviously must be factored in as success in these areas can bring even a despairing game around.

 

[Jim?]

Sorry if I sounded a bit vociferous, mate... wasn't my intention.

I like the G'Vrahn and the Liati just as they are... the Bin'Tak, G'Quan, Primus and Octurion are another matter entirely

 

[Centauri_Admiral]

Sorry if I sounded a bit vocifirous, mate... wasn't my intention.

I like the G'Vrahn and the Liati just as they are... the Bin'Tak, G'Quan, Primus and Octurion are another matter entirely

Dude, not at all, everyone has their opinion. And I don't expect all centauri players to agree with me.lol Had you and I played the narn last weekend, I'm sure between the two of us and our superior tactical abilities, we would have dealt with them. 2 G'Vrahn versus 4 liati, WITH GEG, hahahaha now that would have been interesting.

 

[Jim?]

Sorry if I sounded a bit vocifirous, mate... wasn't my intention.

I like the G'Vrahn and the Liati just as they are... the Bin'Tak, G'Quan, Primus and Octurion are another matter entirely

Dude, not at all, everyone has their opinion. And I don't expect all centauri players to agree with me.lol Had you and I played the narn last weekend, I'm sure between the two of us and our superior tactical abilities, we would have dealt with them. 2 G'Vrahn versus 4 liati, WITH GEG, hahahaha now that would have been interesting.

I love playing against the Narn... even without GEG on my side

All those slow, ponderous bricks with only one hull with interceptors, and most of the other ships in the fleet only having hull 5... time for the demos to cut the possum's fleet in half again

 

[Lord David the Denied]

My vote goes to removing a turn and some forward guns. Probably the mag gun for my money.

 

[katadder]

really think the best bet would basically be to swap the e-mines round on it and the bin'tak to make people actually tink more about their choices.

 

[H]

this is also a really easy fix that could be added to any errata, and does make you think about it. Slow loading e-mines over one shot is quite a choice, irrespective of other weapons!

 

[Foxmeister]

See my other comments. I'm a little concerned that I've been over vehement with my anti-G'Vrahn protests, so hiff if I've offended you through them, then I am truely sorry, and that goes for Dave Fox as well, and anyone else who I've upset through the G'Vrahn rants.

Hey, I'm not offended in the slightest! It's game after all.

My G'Vrahn having now faced a couple of Liatis now has a very healthly respect for them. However, it's certainly true that you'd have to be insane to pick a Bin'Tak over a G'Vrahn, which is a pity because the Bin'Tak is lovely model. Personally, I'd rather see the weaker War level ships made a little harder rather than weakening the stronger War level ships (of which the G'Vrahn is undoubtedly one!)

In the very specific case of comparing the Narn and Centauri fleets, the Centauri don't have a decent War level option and would be wiser spending those points on 2 Battle level ships. The reverse is probably true for the Narn. All IMHO of course!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Swiss Tony]

I faced one of these beasts on the Sunday with my Centauri and although I lost the scenario it was the G'Vhrtan that was trying to escape off table when time was called.

I agree it's hard but for a war level ship its probably ok

 

[B_Steele]

The G'vrann is a bit over the top. I mean why would you ever take a Bintak over one.

In Service Date.

Sorry, you asked.

-Bry

 

[H]

it's a valid point, but I think we know 9 out of ten people ignore ISD's.. try facing the dilgar with the Brakiri... 2 ships available for the bpoor old Brakiri!

 

[katadder]

how often do people use that? dont think i have ever seen it used

 

[GhostRecon]

You can't say the G'vrahn is broken when you have 2 Liati's smoking entire fleets of Marathons, Omegas, and Apollo Cruisers with nary a scratch.

As the fleets closed, the EA managed to destroy one of my Elutarians, while the Liatis screamed forward on my left flank, firing upon the Omega and blowing out it's engines. The game then became a bit of a furball, with everything swarming around the centre of the table with the Liatis dancing through the centre of the EA fleet, destroying the Marathon on their way past, before finishing off the Omega.

...when I managed to destroy the Marathon with one beam shot from a Liati (6/6 crit... ouch) and blow the engines out on the Omega with the other Liati... twice... with one shot After destroying an Apollo shortly afterwards, I accepted my opponent's offer to withdraw, as I'd still lost nothing at this point and wanted to help out on my homeworld.

I jumped my Liatis over to Centauri prime, where the Drakh were enmeshed in a brawl with the ISA. Again, lucky dice rolling on my part saw first one Whitestar go up in smoke as the Ion cannon from one Liati opened fire, while the plasma accelerator severely damaged another 'star.

The luckiest shot of the day for me was yet to come, though, as my second Liati managed to destroy the almost undamaged Tara'Lin (i think it'd only taken 5 points of damage at this point...) with one beam shot (11 hits + another 6/6 crit=dead Sharlin ) at this point, the game was called, and Centauri prime stayed in our hands as the final game arrived.

If the G'vrahn is "broken" then so is the Liati.