28mm to Train Model size conversion

[Galactic Fatt Patt]

Okay, I ask before, but I am having some trouble finding a conversion chart. I am looking to buy model train models for my city scape. I have been told that S scale and O scale are the closest. I have also looked for a conversion table to explain this to me a little easier. So can anyone out there break down the train models scale to mm.
Thanks in advance for you assistance.

 

[Col_stone]

railroad S gauge is 1/64

 

[Mr Evil]

quick look on google search engine and i got this

http://www.csgnetwork.com/modrrscaleconv.html

or if your lazy an edited version:

Typical model railroad scales are (largest to smallest):

1:12 Large Scale
1:13.7 7/8 inch scale
1:20.3 G, Three-Foot Gauge on Gauge 1 Track
1:22.5 LGB and Bachman
1:24 Half scale
1:29 Aristo-Craft, USA Trains, standard gauge on #1 gauge
1:32 I scale
1:48 O scale
1:64 S scale
1:87.1 HO scale
1:120 TT scale
1:160 N scale
1:220 Z scale

as you can see S scale is near spot on

hope that helps.

 

[Secesh]

I don't have a chart or a model train for that matter, but from what I got trying to find the same thing:

O Scale = 40mm = 1/48
S Scale = 30mm = 1/64
HO Scale = 20mm = 1/87

The mm size here is measured from toe to top of head whereas wargamers measure from toe to eyeball so a "30mm" figure is what we would call a "28mm" figure. As Mr.Evil said above S Scale is exactly BF:EVO 28mm size.

 

[jdrew]

Actually O scale looks better with 28mm minatures. S scale buildings can look too small.

 

[Secesh]

jdrew I agree, but because the BF:EVO figures are actually anatomically correct 28mm as opposed to other 28mm figures on the market I'm thinking 1/64 S scale will look right. I say "thinking" as I don't actually have an s scale building, it would be good to hear from someone who can stick a BF:EVO figure next to an s scale train house.

 

[Col_stone]

yadayada

Exactly what i was going to say!

 

[Secesh]

Great minds Col, great minds.

 

[Galactic Fatt Patt]

thnx. I am headed to shop today to check it! Although I don' t have a mini, I can measure out 28 mm and hold it next to models.

 

[willypold]

There is a huge problem with S scale. It's a nearly dead modelling scale. Most of the stuff that can be found is geared for either the narrow-gauge modellers - making everything super expensive - or for the tin-plate crowd - or in effect, toys, and also super expensive. It is also a scale that is extremely difficult to find outside of the US, as it is an exclusively American model railroading scale. For anyone trying to find stuff I would recommend using the Walthers online catalogue, unless you have a well-stocked train store nearby (and live in the US, of course). I don't have any stuff in S scale, but compared with drawings in my old issues of Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette, that scale really is perfect for BFEvo.

 

[Helstrom]

Secesh, your table seems to assume an average male height of 1920mm for the O and S scales, which is almost six and a half feet - pretty tall

1750mm tends to give better results, which would make:

O Scale = 36mm = 1/48
S Scale = 27mm = 1/64
HO Scale = 20mm = 1/87

A "true" 28mm figure in wargaming scale (foot to eye) would come to about 31mm in railroad scale (foot to top of head), and if you add a few mm of equipment and the base, you're closer to O than to S scale, although neither is perfect. For "Heroic" 28mm (which tends to be around 33mm railroad scale) O scale is pretty much spot on.

Dsfrankevo has some pictures around of BF:ECO ("true" 28mm") and Devil Dog Designs ("heroic" 28mm) miniatures with O scale buildings, which I think shows that scale works very well:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25432

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25430

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25005

In my experience, if you can't get it spot on, you're better off scaling buildings and vehicles a little too big or they'll look like toys.

 

[willypold]

True to scale O scale people are between 34 mm (short people) and 38 mm (taller guys) tall. Putting a Games Workshop Space Marine or Imperial Guard figure next to any of my O scale train models is not entirely silly, as there are three reasons why the guard figure standing next to the Colorado & Southern narrow gauge passenger car looks almost OK: the figure is 32 mm tall; it's on a 2.5 mm thick base; it's a lot fatter than the true to scale conductor standing next to it (without a base), making it look more substantial than it should be. A BFEvo figure that is 28 mm tall and also slimmer than the "heroic" scale, will look really out of place with O scale equipment, as there is a full cm of heigth difference between the scales. Simple wooden doors are more than 4 cm tall.

This doesn't mean that you can't use some O scale stuff - go ahead, there are lots of useful items for scratchbuilding, and even some buildings that are somewhat neutral when it comes to size, but I wouldn't put 28 mm figures in a complete environment geared for 36-38 mm. You should also remember that all model railroad buildings have extremely small footprints - you want to put as many as you can in your little city. Even if the volume of a house is small, the details aren't necessarily so.

 

[Galactic Fatt Patt]

Just got back from the store. Okay, the O Scale looked a little big and he did not carry S scale. I saw plasticville stuff and it is really nice. I could buy one of them and resin kit it for multi buildings instead dropping 12 to 25 US on each building. That will get out of control really quick. thanks for all your input and advice and links.
GFP OUT

 

[Helstrom]

Good points Willy, except that the picture posted by Matt some time ago shows that the BF:EVO figures are more like 30mm to the top of the head (ie. "true" 28mm wargaming scale, foot -to-eye). The ideal scale would be about 1/58, making O scale too big and S scale too small. The closest I've seen tot that is 1/56 or 1/55, used by a few companies that produce vehicles specifically for use with 28mm figures, and there may be a diecast or two out there too, but it's not a very common model scale at all.

As such, if you must have railroad buildings, I'd consider O scale the lesser of two evils. That said, there is a fair bit of "loose scale" scenery stuff out there that is designed to work with 28mm figures, and you could always grab a few sheets of foamcore and a sharp knife

This thread has a bunch of good links:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25261

 

[Galactic Fatt Patt]

okay, looked at a lot of those links for past hour. I think I could put some generic foam board with texture paint together. My question is how would you measure it out. I guess I would want to work around the door. Should the door be 30-35 mm tall?
What would a standard ceiling be about 50mm or 5 cm tall?
thanks again for links and site and advice
gfp out

 

[Helstrom]

Based on this picture:

I'd say that your estimates are correct - 35mm for the door, 45-50mm to the ceiling.

 

[willypold]

A question for anyone who has any of the figures already - how tall are they exactly from the top of the base to the top of the helmet?

 

[Galactic Fatt Patt]

That is funny WIllypod!

 

[klingsor]

I believe that the old Plasticville models now sold by Bachmann are small for 1/48th scale, being closer to S Gauge which is good news.

O gauge is 1/48th in the USA but 1/43rd in the UK and possibly something else in Europe. Again a legacy of small British loading gauges. Lima used to do ready to run O gauge that is relatively easy to find on Ebay and not to expensive. You can buy the track from Peco but the rolling stock is rather big, fine for SF (broad gauge) but maybe not so for historical. You can get away with using 1/50 or 1/48 th scale armour and vehicles with 28mm miniatures but trains seem really, really big.

Bachmann do on30 which is 1/48th scale narrow gauge so it runs on 16.5mm gauge track – the same as OO/HO though you will want more prototypical track such as that made by Peco. Very nice and not too expensive, in fact positively cheap compared with O gauge. The only downside is that they are all very American looking though as they were exported widely this is not a huge problem. You can also produce a lot of bits and pieces by cannibalising OO/HO scale rolling stock and kits – which is what many model railway people do.

The Peco track (N, OO/HO and O) flexitrack comes in metre or yard lengths (not sure which) and is not expensive though the O gauge track can be hard to find, I pick up some at a model railway show each year. I cut and joined it into 24 inch lengths and based it on 6mm MDF. This was then ballasted to represent the permanent way and looks excellent. No use for running a train on but perfect for wargaming though really it does need to be dirtied down quite a bit – rusty sides and a shiny top for track in use with the ballast taking on rust, oil and filth as well. I believe that the end of steam brought a colour change in ballast filth but do not know enough about this.

 

[willypold]

That is funny WIllypod!

Why funny?

I simply want to know if the figure in the image is typical. Is this a short guy? Is he one of the taller ones? Are there any variations?

On another note - Continental European O scale is 1:45.