2300AD, thoughts and wishes
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
I had an idea a while back Stutterwarp discharge only works in a star system because of the presence of the solar wind. I explained it that way in one of my games and the players accepted it.
The problem is that I'm not sure if that really holds up to more rigorous examination.
The method I used to explain it was that "charge" that builds up in a stutterwarp coil can only be dissapated by "modified" elementary particles that are part of the solar wind of stars, cooked and modified at the quantum level by the great temperatures and terrific gravitational forces in stars. Fortunately for starships, you don't have to hang around close to stars to get the benefit. The particles are trapped in large amounts in the magnetic/gravitational fields of planets, even distant ones like gas giants in the outer system.
These particles are present in most Sol-type stars and in stars that are bigger and hotter. Stars that aren't hot enough do not seem to produce them - most dwarf stars, for instance, do not produce the correctly "modified" particles. They cannot be created in the quantities necessary for stutterwarp discharge by man-made methods, thus humanity has used planets as good "traps." Since the late 2200s, France has been working on man-made traps for these particles so their navy can discharge around stars that don't have planets or whose planets are heavily mined/monitored. The system's science is sound in theory, but the French haven't been able to get it to work yet.
Certain brown dwarfs (not all of them - only about 3% of them) are rated as "emitters", a surprise discovery made in the 2250s as they were found to have the necessary "altered" particles in their magnetosphere, something that went against the scientific understanding of the time. How these particular brown dwarfs produce or "get" the particles is a process not well understood by science even in 2300.
While this explanation will not cover the positional errors, it will neatly explain why people (and Kafers) only go to the brighter stars present in older stellar catalogs.
The problem is that I'm not sure if that really holds up to more rigorous examination.
The method I used to explain it was that "charge" that builds up in a stutterwarp coil can only be dissapated by "modified" elementary particles that are part of the solar wind of stars, cooked and modified at the quantum level by the great temperatures and terrific gravitational forces in stars. Fortunately for starships, you don't have to hang around close to stars to get the benefit. The particles are trapped in large amounts in the magnetic/gravitational fields of planets, even distant ones like gas giants in the outer system.
These particles are present in most Sol-type stars and in stars that are bigger and hotter. Stars that aren't hot enough do not seem to produce them - most dwarf stars, for instance, do not produce the correctly "modified" particles. They cannot be created in the quantities necessary for stutterwarp discharge by man-made methods, thus humanity has used planets as good "traps." Since the late 2200s, France has been working on man-made traps for these particles so their navy can discharge around stars that don't have planets or whose planets are heavily mined/monitored. The system's science is sound in theory, but the French haven't been able to get it to work yet.
Certain brown dwarfs (not all of them - only about 3% of them) are rated as "emitters", a surprise discovery made in the 2250s as they were found to have the necessary "altered" particles in their magnetosphere, something that went against the scientific understanding of the time. How these particular brown dwarfs produce or "get" the particles is a process not well understood by science even in 2300.
While this explanation will not cover the positional errors, it will neatly explain why people (and Kafers) only go to the brighter stars present in older stellar catalogs.
Epicenter - I really like that idea. It sounds as plausible as stutterwarp itself and can be twisted by the GM or PCs to fit the plot if need be. Also, I do like the idea of having some unreachable stars. This would allow "lost" colonies and perhaps it would be interesting to have an alien race that humans know are their due to direct observation or by way of radio waves but they can not contact. This would also allow for the plausible introduction of STL colony and exploration ships. The colonists could also make a one-way fTL trip and then dump the drive.
I've kind of come around to the idea of using real stellar data. Just keep the feel of the game and the Arms.
And as for the Powers That Be at Mongoose...Let's go people. Time's a wasting and I want my 2300AD!!! Please.
Benjamin
I've kind of come around to the idea of using real stellar data. Just keep the feel of the game and the Arms.
And as for the Powers That Be at Mongoose...Let's go people. Time's a wasting and I want my 2300AD!!! Please.
Benjamin
Has anyone examined reducing the 7.7 LY limit a bit? I did some map plotting once long ago using a 3D mapping program which completely explained the reason 2300 AD placed the limit around 7.7 LY. What if it became 7.6 LY? 7.5 LY? Are there any important worlds that are lost? Does it help keep the arms seperate? A.i. if the adjustment was to drop the limit to 7.6 and move one canon world by .1 to keep it in range, I could live with that.
I was thinking the same thing. The 7.7 LY limit was an arbitrary number selected to work with the map data of the day. Changing the number while leaving the functional aspect of the map alone may be a better solution. I have vague memories of maps that were simply connection diagrams between the various systems, probably in "Lone Wolf" or "Three Blind Mice" in Challenge. I feel that's the key to the map from a game point of view.
re: 7.7 ly limit
One thing to remember is that even in 2300, the 7.7 ly limit was not absolute. It was the basically the safe distance that any Stutterwarp ship could reach. If you had a skilled engineer you could actually get like 7.8 (I think even 7.9ly) out of Stutterwarps, even in 2300.
Some of these "out of reach" systems might require the presence of skilled engineer, which seems sort of cool to me in that - doing the Kessel run in X Parsecs and so on. Or a "Wolf-qualified engineer" or something to massage the coils to get that extra distance out of the stutterwarp.
One thing to remember is that even in 2300, the 7.7 ly limit was not absolute. It was the basically the safe distance that any Stutterwarp ship could reach. If you had a skilled engineer you could actually get like 7.8 (I think even 7.9ly) out of Stutterwarps, even in 2300.
Some of these "out of reach" systems might require the presence of skilled engineer, which seems sort of cool to me in that - doing the Kessel run in X Parsecs and so on. Or a "Wolf-qualified engineer" or something to massage the coils to get that extra distance out of the stutterwarp.
Epicenter said:
It was more than that. Delaying discharge by 24 hours allowed some ships to go nearly 11 or 12 Ly - the Kennedy is one I can think of. There was also the ISV in the 1st edition rules that had an "advanced drive" that let you travel further (I don't remember how far off the top of my head).
G
steffworthington
Mongoose
I dont mind a new map I guess... but keep the arms. It's one of the things that made the game unique for me. No arbitrary 'borders' in space. Even if there has to be a French, American, Chinese AND a new arm.
Reduce the 7.7ly if you have to... but keep the choke points etc. If the only real choke point is Wolf 359 (Nyotekundu IIRC) then Triumphant Destiny shouldve been able to total Earth. A system is simply too big to picket fence all of it and all it takes is one Beta cruiser to sneak through to Sol, launch a nuke at the beanstalk and its all over. As for extending the jump range of ships it doesnt make sense to dwell on it for too long. The kafers have a much higher tolerance to radiation than humanity and if the 'extendable' range was possible then the kafers couldve bypassed humanity at any time in theory.
Reduce the 7.7ly if you have to... but keep the choke points etc. If the only real choke point is Wolf 359 (Nyotekundu IIRC) then Triumphant Destiny shouldve been able to total Earth. A system is simply too big to picket fence all of it and all it takes is one Beta cruiser to sneak through to Sol, launch a nuke at the beanstalk and its all over. As for extending the jump range of ships it doesnt make sense to dwell on it for too long. The kafers have a much higher tolerance to radiation than humanity and if the 'extendable' range was possible then the kafers couldve bypassed humanity at any time in theory.
GJD said:
But this is easy to handle. Just don't let this rule make it into the MGP version. Without getting my books out, I even think some of these issues were addressed in the 2nd version of 2300 AD vs. the first. Even so, just don't allow anything over whatever new LY limit fixes things (if that's possible) and don't allow rules such as those above. I don't think removing an obscure rule would upset even the most direhard fan.
Yes the later Challenge adventure allowed carrying off-line stutterwarps to exceed the LY limit, but that is a completely other matter that came later as part of a secret military project. Even if that is later allowed, it wouldn't upset the canon "Arms" because it was something that was developed later and was expensive.
8)
As I've said MANY times - I got into 2300AD in 1992 just as the last module was being published and the game was being marketed as a Cyberpunk game.
Compared to Cyberpunk:2020 - this game ruled - 33 worlds to have adventures on!
Much better than just "Night City" for 2020 !!!! Anyway, I wrote a cyberpunk adventure for the Ranger 2300 module that plays very well.
I should see about getting it published.......
Anyway, we just sutterwarped to the various planets to do the various cyberpunk adventures - all in quite good fun.
2300AD will play well with the Traveller rules, and should sell very well too.
Maybe I should write the new Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook.....
:lol:
As I've said MANY times - I got into 2300AD in 1992 just as the last module was being published and the game was being marketed as a Cyberpunk game.
Compared to Cyberpunk:2020 - this game ruled - 33 worlds to have adventures on!
Much better than just "Night City" for 2020 !!!! Anyway, I wrote a cyberpunk adventure for the Ranger 2300 module that plays very well.
I should see about getting it published.......
Anyway, we just sutterwarped to the various planets to do the various cyberpunk adventures - all in quite good fun.
2300AD will play well with the Traveller rules, and should sell very well too.
Maybe I should write the new Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook.....
:lol:
Colin said:
I don't recall which program it was, but I had one that used real star data and you could plug in LY limits and it would plot all of the routes for you. I thought at the time it was designed with 2300 AD in mind. If someone can't recall which program this was, I can look around for it I still have it someplace. AstroSynthesis? Its Full of Stars? Warp Now?
Colin
Mongoose
Start here: http://warp2010.co.cc
Uncle Mojo
Mongoose
Just found about this awhile ago and I'd like to congratulate Colin and say huzzah for a new 2300AD RPG (yes, I know it's a bit premature, but here's hoping it all works out). Too bad to hear about 2320AD, but after many years of no news and no print version in sight, it wasn't unexpected. Got the pdf way back when it was released and it's really sad that that material has to be wasted (sort of, as it cannot be used on the new 2300AD). Oh well, once more unto the breach, Colin!
If were up to me, I'd update the starmap and "modernize" the setting from it's 80's origins. By modernizing, I don't mean making it into something unrecognizable from the original (no transhuman space this!), but e.g. taking into consideration the technological progress of the past 20 years and changes in the political world and such. Of course anything written today will be just as outdated in the next 20 years, as the original 2300AD is now, but so what, we're playing the game now (well, soon). I don't need to worry about how it'll hold water in 10 or 20 years, we can revise it again then :wink:.
What I would leave out, first and foremost, would be the "god aliens" and psionic powers. This is supposed to be hard SF after all. I'd also drop few of the intelligent alien species too (not Kafers, nor Pentapods). It's a bit too crowded in the 50 ly sphere around Sol, IMO. Also, in name of hard SF, I'd drop the plasma guns (do we really believe they'd be doable - at least the man portable ones need to go) and wide use of hovercrafts (I know they're a trademark of the game and I really like them too, but for a hard SF game, I think they're a bit, ehm, iffy -- I think we'd have seen wide use of hovercraft by now if it were viable). Just my 2 cents. YMMV.
I've got no objection to making the twilight stem from e.g. a meteor impact, but a world war suits as well, so long as the reasons for it are left a bit vague (I hate very specific near future history in SF games - hmm, isn't "future history" an oxymoron...). Anyway, enough of my mindless rambling, just want to say that I think this is a great opportunity to revise and revitalize the 2300AD universe and make it more, eh, modern. Sorry to keep using that word, but can't seem to find another suitable one (English is not my first language, you see).
I am glad Colin is the person at the helm of this revision. Godspeed!
If were up to me, I'd update the starmap and "modernize" the setting from it's 80's origins. By modernizing, I don't mean making it into something unrecognizable from the original (no transhuman space this!), but e.g. taking into consideration the technological progress of the past 20 years and changes in the political world and such. Of course anything written today will be just as outdated in the next 20 years, as the original 2300AD is now, but so what, we're playing the game now (well, soon). I don't need to worry about how it'll hold water in 10 or 20 years, we can revise it again then :wink:.
What I would leave out, first and foremost, would be the "god aliens" and psionic powers. This is supposed to be hard SF after all. I'd also drop few of the intelligent alien species too (not Kafers, nor Pentapods). It's a bit too crowded in the 50 ly sphere around Sol, IMO. Also, in name of hard SF, I'd drop the plasma guns (do we really believe they'd be doable - at least the man portable ones need to go) and wide use of hovercrafts (I know they're a trademark of the game and I really like them too, but for a hard SF game, I think they're a bit, ehm, iffy -- I think we'd have seen wide use of hovercraft by now if it were viable). Just my 2 cents. YMMV.
I've got no objection to making the twilight stem from e.g. a meteor impact, but a world war suits as well, so long as the reasons for it are left a bit vague (I hate very specific near future history in SF games - hmm, isn't "future history" an oxymoron...). Anyway, enough of my mindless rambling, just want to say that I think this is a great opportunity to revise and revitalize the 2300AD universe and make it more, eh, modern. Sorry to keep using that word, but can't seem to find another suitable one (English is not my first language, you see).
I am glad Colin is the person at the helm of this revision. Godspeed!
Colin
Mongoose
Plasma guns have been a staple of Traveller for so long no one likes to think that they aren't possible. In the book series "Far Stars War" (I think) they covered them a little differently, as "miniature" directed nuclear bomb(!) Perhaps particle beam weapons powered by one-shot explosive power generators or super-capacitors. This is all at the thought-experiment level at the moment.
I've already wrote a little about hovercraft. In general, I would call 2300's hover tanks "expeditionary tanks": light-weight tanks designed to be easily transportable and be able to handle a wide variety of terrain. Though I think something more like a modern Stryker would fit the bill better. Military technology will see a re-examination, even if there are no changes. As a military hardware geek (among other kinds of geek...) I think that I can not offend too many people in that area.
I've already wrote a little about hovercraft. In general, I would call 2300's hover tanks "expeditionary tanks": light-weight tanks designed to be easily transportable and be able to handle a wide variety of terrain. Though I think something more like a modern Stryker would fit the bill better. Military technology will see a re-examination, even if there are no changes. As a military hardware geek (among other kinds of geek...) I think that I can not offend too many people in that area.
