Yet another idea for replacing the halving mechanic

[RMS]

I agree with you with the exception of two points, both of which you are aware of, and have mentioned them to me.

1) Extended Contests. You might not run them, but they are in there.

2) Consequences for Failure. In HQ you rarely loose your character for failing a contest. It can happen, but not as often as RQ.

I should have mentioned Extended Contests, and it just slipped my mind. I thought he was talking about something else. If this is what he meant, I can understand where the comment came from.

I run Extended Contests, but just not frequently. Whenever something is important enough to the player to want to go to the Extended Contest, I do it. It just isn't very often. Mechanically, the players are actually much better off with Simple Contests, so this really isn't that often. I mentioned before that we actually do this more often for things that are interesting, but not critical: it works great for Shield Push and Trollball and tends to get used there more than combat.

You're right on part 2, though in my experience RQ isn't particularly deadly. Most people run away or surrender after their first serious injury...which is pretty realistic. Yeah, HQ has to be run a certain way (like I do :twisted: ) for it to be deadly.

 

[atgxtg]

You're right on part 2, though in my experience RQ isn't particularly deadly. Most people run away or surrender after their first serious injury...which is pretty realistic. Yeah, HQ has to be run a certain way (like I do :twisted: ) for it to be deadly.

Most normal people do. Player characters are, of course, above normal, and so a few to get themselves killed. Especially those coming from a certain other RPG. I've seen some fools refuse to run or surrender with both arms disabled. I've even seen somone die becuase of ONE disrupt (THe player cast it at the wrong guy, who killed him).

But then, maybe most players are brighter than the ones I've seen. I mean after seeing someone slap a Chalana Arroy healer, I'll believe players can do almost anything.

 

[RMS]

Most normal people do. Player characters are, of course, above normal, and so a few to get themselves killed. Especially those coming from a certain other RPG. I've seen some fools refuse to run or surrender with both arms disabled. I've even seen somone die becuase of ONE disrupt (THe player cast it at the wrong guy, who killed him).

I'm sure you're right. Remember that most of my RQ experience is in two multi-year (3+ and 7+) campaigns with the same core set of players, so I haven't had a lot of experience breaking players from bad habits in other games.

 

[atgxtg]

Most normal people do. Player characters are, of course, above normal, and so a few to get themselves killed. Especially those coming from a certain other RPG. I've seen some fools refuse to run or surrender with both arms disabled. I've even seen somone die becuase of ONE disrupt (THe player cast it at the wrong guy, who killed him).

I'm sure you're right. Remember that most of my RQ experience is in two multi-year (3+ and 7+) campaigns with the same core set of players, so I haven't had a lot of experience breaking players from bad habits in other games.

I hope I'm wrong. I've ran some very good players, and I've read some idiots. That some of my players in the past had a habit of abusing controlled substances probably means that most players are not as stupid as some of the ones I've encounters (in more ways than one).

Part of the problem was also a difference in styles. For instance, the D&Ders would rather go down fighting than surrender. THis waspartly due to years of previous experience where prisoners were killed. THe idea that it was "better to go down fighting" stuck with them.

When I broght those same players into a game like RQ or Bond, they just couldn't "unlearn" the old behavior. In RQ ransoms are pretty much standard for adventurers, and in Bond, you almost plan on getting captured once in an adventure-it is one of the best ways to inflitrate the villian's HQ and uncover his plans. Plus, it puts the agents right where they needed to be tto stop the villian's scheme.

 

[RMS]

Part of the problem was also a difference in styles. For instance, the D&Ders would rather go down fighting than surrender. THis waspartly due to years of previous experience where prisoners were killed. THe idea that it was "better to go down fighting" stuck with them.

Neither of these groups came from a D&D background, which may have helped. In fact, my current group has never played D&D in any form, though they use several other d20 variants. They've grown up mostly on WW materials for what it's worth.

When I broght those same players into a game like RQ or Bond, they just couldn't "unlearn" the old behavior. In RQ ransoms are pretty much standard for adventurers, and in Bond, you almost plan on getting captured once in an adventure-it is one of the best ways to inflitrate the villian's HQ and uncover his plans. Plus, it puts the agents right where they needed to be tto stop the villian's scheme.

I can understand the attitude in RQ a bit, but in Bond it's such a central focus of the stories to get captured that I don't sympathise there. I'm not even a huge Bond fan, but I've seen enough of the movies to know that he always gets captured a time or two during the show.

 

[atgxtg]

Neither of these groups came from a D&D background, which may have helped. In fact, my current group has never played D&D in any form, though they use several other d20 variants. They've grown up mostly on WW materials for what it's worth.

It is probably worth a lot. In my experience, someone with no gaming experience does better than soemone with lots of D&D experience when it comes to trying a new game. Basically the newbie realizes he doesn't know anything and so learns the game. He also tends to understand things like how being shot, stabbed, crushed and all that can kill you, break you bones and all that.

The experienced D&Der is less inclined to listen, as he believes himself to be an experienced gamer. He also brings along a lot of preconcied ideas about how things work based upon D&D experiences. I remember one guy I used to game with who every session would make a major bonehead play becuase he just didn't understand that I wasn't running D&D. He tried to use infravsion, accidentally cut someone's arm off, assumed Griffions did 1D8 damage, ruined a fine horse (worth 5gp) for a 1gp reward, woundered how he was dead at "only neg six", and so on.

Typically such players get frustrated, don't want to listen and so do poorly. If you can find one who is willing to listen and unlearn all the D&D stuff that only applies to D&D, he will do okay.

I can understand the attitude in RQ a bit, but in Bond it's such a central focus of the stories to get captured that I don't sympathise there. I'm not even a huge Bond fan, but I've seen enough of the movies to know that he always gets captured a time or two during the show.

I know. It even mentions that in the book, and I told my players this on more than one occasion, because the book makes a big point of it. Getting captured once per mission is sort of par for the course. It doesn't have to happen, but it isn't the end of the world when it does. I remeber one time where they had stopped and were thinking about it when they just went "naaahh" and reverted to D&D mode. They were outnumbered by about 20 to 1. They got slaughtered.

Afterwards they asked me, "How were we supposed to get into that fortress?"

I suggested several ideas, inclduing "Well, if you had surrendered they would have marched you right in through the door and taken you to the villian you are after."
"Yeah, but what could we do then? THey would take our guns away!"

"Do you have that Q Branch taser pen? And doesn't Ray have that grenade?"

"Oh yeah."


I think the big problem was that in Bond you just can't go running around killing things for no good reason. I once had a player suggest kidnapping and intorrgating someone for information, because they couldn't figure out any other way of getting the information. Not even when the guy's dossier noted the man had a weakness for the fair sex, and the group had a babe with a high seduction skill. All she had to do was bat her eylashed and he'd have been chasing her!