Yanks in Space...

[WHULorigan]

Yeah, I remember that seemed conscientiously pointed out in history.

The problem that the British parliamentarians had was that they didn't understand the colonists and human nature - you collect the money before, not after.

It was also a matter of the representation issue, and the original Charters for the Colonies to begin with.

A number (not all) of those colonies had been established by groups in the 17th Century who were granted a Royal Charter for their colony as a place to practice a dissenting religious view or views from the established Anglican worship. Even though the religious ferver of the early period lessened with time, the Colonials were jealous of their rights granted by various Charters for semi-independent local government, and all of them had largely been left alone by England for almost 150 years.

When the Seven Years War concluded in 1763 and in an unprecedented move the British left some soldiers in the Colonies after the conflict, and for the first time in another unprecedented move expected to tax revenues on imports to pay for the war (without any elected Parliamentary voice or vote as guaranteed under English Law), the Colonials were understandably concerned. Sure the Parliamentary system was corrupt with "Rotten Burroughs" and unrepresented districts like Manchester at the time, but the argument that the Parliament regardless still represented all Englishmen as a whole did not work in the case of the Colonies for a simple reason: There was no way to rationalize how a body composed entirely of members both on and from an island 3000 miles away could possibly understand the situation and needs of, let alone the best interests of (or really care about) a bunch of colonists 3000 miles across an ocean, weeks to months away by ship, that they had never seen nor would ever see. If Britain started to do this now, why not tax the colonies anytime they needed money for whatever reason rather than the home island, especially since there was no elected representative voice speaking for them in Parliament with any voting or legislative authority?

 

[Sigtrygg]

The British parliament of the time didn't represent over 75% of "englishmen".

You could only vote if you met certain wealth criteria, and the idea they were a consideration of parliament is laughable.

Not much different to today, any "rights as englishmen" guaranteed by our unwritten constitution are being completely ignored to the benefit of our rulers.

The Bill of Rights that is an inspiration for the US constitution is a sadly obsolete document.

 

[Condottiere]

I think there quite a number of different agendas in operation.

The British Parliament wasn't renowned for being in favour of taxation, but did believe that Colonies should pay for themselves, and the mistake, if it could be called one, wasn't explaining to the Colonies how their defence would be financed.

Besides religious dissenters, quite a lot of political ones either migrated or were transported trans Atlantic, so treasonous tendencies were always in the air.

 

[actionman]

a certain SciFi novel set and it's "got to big for the story" heroine

And her Funky Phantom cat. I put that book down after the first chapter.

 

[WHULorigan]

The British parliament of the time didn't represent over 75% of "englishmen".

You could only vote if you met certain wealth criteria, and the idea they were a consideration of parliament is laughable.

True, but of course in the Colonies it was many of the same general classes of people (i.e. propertied interests - whether planters or mercantile/business owners) who were raising the objections.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Oddly enough thanks to the articles of incorporation of the colonies the individual colonist had a lot more individual rights from the get go than the working class back home. Many of the settlements and later towns were built from the ground up with civic meetings making decisions and electing officials rather than hereditary appointments.

 

[WHULorigan]

Oddly enough thanks to the articles of incorporation of the colonies the individual colonist had a lot more individual rights from the get go than the working class back home. Many of the settlements and later towns were built from the ground up with civic meetings making decisions and electing officials rather than hereditary appointments.

And after 150 years, the Colonials jealously guarded those privileges, but yes.

Also, in the early USA, after the ratification of the 1787 Constitution, the initial suffrage was for certain minimum property qualifications over here as well, but fairly early got expanded to universal (Free) male suffrage.

 

[Sigtrygg]

A lot is made of women getting the vote here in blighty after WW1 - what is not mentioned often is that all those poor sods being blown to bits in the trenches didn't have the vote either. Working class men didn't get the vote until post war, partly as a way to stave off a socialist revolution.

What is so amazing about the US constitution is just how clever the authors were to include safeguards preventing the blatant disregard of the general population that is now obvious in the UK. Shame it couldn't have been adopted as the UN charter...

Never give up the 1st and 2nd

 

[actionman]

what is not mentioned often is that all those poor sods being blown to bits in the trenches didn't have the vote either.

And there was always a woman with a white feather at the ready should some poor sod not volunteer to get blown to bits quickly enough.

 

[dragon3r]

The term isn't a compliment, though yeah whatever, it is tough being number one. However, the US is a great example of being "space-ish" for like a crawl between different settled zones:



So like I went and bought a truck in Pahrump Nevada, over a mountain northwest of Las Vegas, and drove it back after visiting a friend in Tucson (they let me sit in the big chair and turn the doomsday key), skirting the south though El Paso, through Dallas at night to avoid traffic, got caught in traffic towards Memphis, headed north into some real wilds in Arkansas, caught up with the freeway and finally headed up through southern Illinois, to Indianapolis, and finally my home just outside the Chicago circle. Totally like some weird Traveller journey.

Tucson has a really nice air and space museum, here I am in front of a B 52, though I got to touch a SR 71, and even an English Electric Lightning (it's a beefy aircraft).

 

[AndrewW]

Tucson has a really nice air and space museum, here I am in front of a B 52, though I got to touch a SR 71, and even an English Electric Lightning (it's a beefy aircraft).

Pima? Didn't have an SR-71 when I was there, but did have NASA's SOFIA.

 

[Arkathan]

Pima? Didn't have an SR-71 when I was there, but did have NASA's SOFIA.

Website lists both now.

 

[Condottiere]

People are mostly exposed to science fiction media where the main characters are clearly American.

This may change in the near future, where most characters are Japanese, and Japanese stereotypes of Americans.

 

[dragon3r]

I'm a rustbelter, so that is pretty droll to us as well. We're more sarcastic, like when a scrap truck lost a load coming from the CAT plant on a main road just in time for rush hour after it snowed the night before:



We're also the ones that make things, like Traveller.