WWII Evolution! Again!

[Shadow4ce]

Before anyone tells me, yes I am aware dsfrankevo posted this one earlier, but that thread got bogged down into a scale war and somehow left the topic of game system behind. So, here I am attempting to resurrect it as it were! (Truth be told I almost hit send when I thought, you know I'll bet frank or somebody already thought of this. Glad I checked, but what I have to say about the topic would I believe be ignored in that thread). 8)

Here are my thoughts on a possible WWII Evolution!

First, don't just make it ETO EVO! Island-Hopping the Pacific "Evo style" and raising the flag on Iwo Jima would rock the rock so-to-speak!

It should have the following 5 factions in some form or another:

European Allies - Great Britain, US Army, France, Scotland, Ireland, etc.
European Axis - Germany & Italy.
Pacific Axis - Japan & umm... Japan.
Pacific Allies - Great Britain, USMC, Australia & China.
Soviet Union

This would allow for any historical or alternate history type of game, which I think would be very fun! What are your thoughts? Scale btw = irrelevant here!

 

[weasel_fierce]

Make a comprehensive damn book.

Dont bury the game in junk where every single unit has 9 different abilities

Make a game where an average "army" is not 14 foot soldiers and 3 Tiger tanks.

Dont give in to pop-history.



Ahem. Wish list here

EDIT: Everytime someone says "game not simulation!!" God kills a kitten. So dont. Please.

Think of the kittens

 

[emperorpenguin]

European Allies - Great Britain, US Army, France, Scotland, Ireland, etc.

Great Britain AND Scotland? :? Scotland IS in Great Britain!

Ireland played no part in World War 2, why on earth would you include them!?

 

[emperorpenguin]

EDIT: Everytime someone says "game not simulation!!" God kills a kitten. So dont. Please.

Think of the kittens

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[hegemon]

I've done some work on a WW2 game based on evo pm me if you want a look,

Armies:
British
German
USMC
Jap Imperial

 

[Shadow4ce]

European Allies - Great Britain, US Army, France, Scotland, Ireland, etc.

Great Britain AND Scotland? :? Scotland IS in Great Britain!

Ireland played no part in World War 2, why on earth would you include them!?

Thank you for correcting me. Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone as I'm not 100% familiar with European Forces in WWII. I grew up in Hawaii and most of my WWII expertise lies in the Pacific campaign.

It's just that I remember seeing the Scots had their own uniform, so I quite figured they were their own force. If not totally seperate then sort of like the US Marines are to the US Navy. Subsidiary yes, but distinct as well.

As far as the Irish, I was quite certain the Irish Guards Regiment was all Irish. During the Second World War, the regiment lost over 700 men killed, 1500 wounded and was awarded 252 medals, including two VCs. I'd say perhaps Ireland didn't play a part, but the Irish did.

I apologize for stating countries rather than people. Just another dumb Yank here who wasn't alive in 1939-1945. I was basically just trying to start a dialogue of ideas for unit types. Should have said English, Americans, French (ooh, Underground units would be cool), Scots, Irish, etc.). Sorry for not better illustrating what I was after. Thanks again for the education though.

 

[Mr Evil]

I've done some work on a WW2 game based on evo pm me if you want a look,

Armies:
British
German
USMC
Jap Imperial

you forgot the italians !!!!!!!!!

hungarians, romanians ? every body forgets the axis and concentrates on the allies.

also their were some spanish units fighting on lease,

 

[weasel_fierce]

Finland and Poland are high on my list, as are France

 

[Pietia]

There is one big problem with any WWII game. The amount of various types of vehicles is huge (esp. in the case of the Axis) - I've just been going through the German units that would be needed for 39 campaign: 6 types of tanks, 3 types of armored cars, 2 types of SPAA, a transport halftrack, 2 trucks (ok, the trucks may be abstracted into a generic "truck" unit)... No to mention infantry guns, at-guns, various infantry units... On the Polish side the situation is similar - 4 types of armored cars, 7 types of tanks, 3 types of tankettes... I didn't even bother to count the various types of Russian equipment used in the invasion on Poland and Finland - but it would be even larger amount. Seems like an awful amount of work. And that's only a single early war campaign.

 

[DM]

Siliar in a way to the scope required for comprehensive ship lists in VAS. The trick is to get agood team of designers and developers working from a consistent set of source data and using consistent design rules, and have them critique each other's designs.

 

[Mr Evil]

your also find alot of WW2 units would have tha sme stats for example the differance between many armoured cars was so minute you could effectivly just have a sta nfor armoured cars and then maybe a bonus to the stat or a minus to the stst for different factions. then if the player whants to get it 100% historicaly correct they can do reaserch they what but sue the generic stat line.

just an idea, its like in FOW many armoured cars are the same stats on average.

 

[Pietia]

Well, not really... WWII armored cars vary very much - from small and fragile 4 wheeled cars armed with just machine guns to 8-wheeled monstrosities armed with powerful AT-guns and armored better than most early war tanks.
The same with tanks - especially those which were used through the entire war. The weapons, protection and even mission of e.g. Panzer IV was completely different in the early stages of war, during mid-war and late war.
In the case of vehicles for the 39 Polish campaing - Polish TK-3 and TKS are the only case in which 2 vehicles could be given the same stats. All other vehicles varied in armament, protection, mobility and mission enough to warrant a separate set of statistics for each of them. I come from the historical gamers crowd, so I really care about such things .

 

[Mr Evil]

like said keep it simple, every player should have a rough idea what every light armoured car is like, compared to a heavy armoured car, and flavour can come in via special rules, or a faction bonus

 

[emperorpenguin]

Thank you for correcting me. Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone as I'm not 100% familiar with European Forces in WWII. I grew up in Hawaii and most of my WWII expertise lies in the Pacific campaign.

No offence taken

It's just that I remember seeing the Scots had their own uniform, so I quite figured they were their own force. If not totally seperate then sort of like the US Marines are to the US Navy. Subsidiary yes, but distinct as well.

You sometimes see Scots regiments in tamo'shanters and kilts but that is a historical uniform throwback, they weren't organised seperately.

As far as the Irish, I was quite certain the Irish Guards Regiment was all Irish. During the Second World War, the regiment lost over 700 men killed, 1500 wounded and was awarded 252 medals, including two VCs. I'd say perhaps Ireland didn't play a part, but the Irish did.

Northern Ireland is in the UK and is primarily where the Irish Guards recruit from. Men from Ireland can join and many did. However Ireland as a political country played no part. Also of historical note: Conscription was never applied in Northern ireland due to pressure from the Irish government. Likewise in WW1 the Irish were never conscripted to fight, something the likes of Sinn Fein likes to ignore.

I apologize for stating countries rather than people

. Far from it, we should be stating countries! After all people from everywhere took part but that shouldn't mean we see Swedish/Spanish/Irish/Swiss volunteer units. You'd have to concentrate on the real historical armies

 

[tneva82]

your also find alot of WW2 units would have tha sme stats for example the differance between many armoured cars was so minute you could effectivly just have a sta nfor armoured cars and then maybe a bonus to the stat or a minus to the stst for different factions. then if the player whants to get it 100% historicaly correct they can do reaserch they what but sue the generic stat line.

I would say there's quite a bit of difference between one with 20cm/L55 gun(IIRC germans had such weapons. Exact numbers might vary)+AAMG, one with 2xAAMG, one with rocket launcher, one with 20mm autocannon etc etc etc.

 

[Mr Evil]

thats just an x type armoured car with x weapon sytem.

you find the vehicle you wish to use, find the class of vehicle then select class of weapon system to be on the vehicle, like modules.

avantage would be, far more vehicles available and represented from a basic rule set than whats being done with bf evo for example.

i prefer modular sytems as companies always miss out a few vehicles for example there like 12 classes of T34's missed out in FOW

 

[Shadow4ce]

EP,

Thanks again for the input. You broke it down and explained it far better than I could. I totally agree with you.

Now, as far as the AC stuff goes, while I'm a WWII vehicle nut who likes preciseness, I'm going to have to go with Evil on this one. There are just way too many various units available. Pietia, I know you're aware of this as you've done some impressive work on the sheer number of modern stuff available via your homemade stat cards. But I think everyone here is missing Evil's point.

Get all the ones which are similar in size and the stats are somewhat close. Make a model for them, perhaps even a modular one where one can swap turrets or weapons for example, then just have a variety of cards. Evil, if I'm wrong here please correct as necessary, but this is what I understand you to be saying.

I like what DM says about VAS, perhaps a WWII game needs just rules and let us determine scale and units based on what is already out there. Although, changing the scale to a more easily found one, such as 1/72 or 1/48 would solve it nicely too, and who wouldn't want some prepainted WWII Men and Machines in these scales? :wink:

 

[Mr Evil]

sorat got it

basicly use other peoples ranges of units.

then amke modular stats via cards.

then maybe sell packs of cars, ie 1942-1943 german deck for example, in your deck you have all the basic units and versions in thier, the modular sytem is more from a game design point of view.

all mongoose need do is produce decks of cards, wich we use as an army list. then use 1:72 scale modles as a standard.

 

[hegemon]

Evil, i didnt forget the I-ties, or anyone else just aint done them yet.

Thing with the british army is only half of it has the same uniform, eg Kings Royal Hussars have Cherry red trousers, scots have Tamo'shanters, Glengarrys and Kilts, the Irish have those wierd ma-who-sive hats, everyone has a different style belt.

Its all part of the regimental system, each regiment has its only history, stories and traditions.

 

[tneva82]

thats just an x type armoured car with x weapon sytem.

Whatabout more heavily armoured AC's then? Some of those buggers gets torched the second any kind of AT weapon hits, some can survive weaker ones without blowing out instantly...

Then there's 6/8 wheel ones...