Would you convict Delenn of War Crimes?

[Felix_Lunar]

BTW - Even their own leader Dukat who knew nothing about humanity knew gun-ports open was a dumb idea.

Which goes to show that at least the warrior caste and the religious caste had differing views on this practice. Shame the bridge crew/commander were/was warrior caste (iirc).

 

[Timestheus]

Here is an interesting question.

The EA got a lucky hit and pretty heavily damaged the Minbari flagship. Her sensors were down and who knows what else was not functioning.

What if the EA commander had decided in for an pound and launches an all out assault and destroys the damaged and off balance ship?

I dont remember her traveling with any other ships of the Minbari fleet and depending on how quick the destruction is the Minbari may never know what happened.

So basically one day the Grey Council leaves town and is never heard from again.

What happens now?

 

[Da Boss]

would certainly be interesting

 

[Kizarvexis]

Don't forget that RL militaries here on Earth have a version of approaching an opposing warship with gunports open. Gun salutes in the navies of Earth are very similar. When two sailing warships approached each other, they would fire off their guns. It was to show that their guns were not loaded, so it was safe to come along side. Sounds very similar to approaching with gunports open, but not armed, to show it was safe to come along side.

Kizarvexis

 

[tneva82]

I dont remember her traveling with any other ships of the Minbari fleet and depending on how quick the destruction is the Minbari may never know what happened.

There was second sharlin to support so not easy. As it was EA ships got pounded badly as they escaped(which begs question. Why didn't sensors of 2nd Sharlin interfere with jump engines?).

 

[GhostRecon]

I dont remember her traveling with any other ships of the Minbari fleet and depending on how quick the destruction is the Minbari may never know what happened.

There was second sharlin to support so not easy. As it was EA ships got pounded badly as they escaped(which begs question. Why didn't sensors of 2nd Sharlin interfere with jump engines?).

Likely, they lowered the intensity of their sensors to reduce their electronic radiation/ EM energy they put out to reduce their profile, so their ECM/stealth would work far more effectively.

Sort of like turning the flashlight off in a dark room so you disappear and can kill a guy.

As to the topic question:

I would say, personally, no. It really highlights the weakness of the Minbari character and culture when they hold themselves to be so superior, calm, collected, and ultimately just plain smarter and better than every other race, yet they got thrown into such a huge fury over the death of one person, to the point of nearly EXTERMINATING another race.

All for the death of one individual, through an event that is PURE ACCIDENT to any intelligent, neutral observer.

Ultimately, the human race was nearly wiped out because of some simple miscommunication.

Rather humbling to the human arrogance and the Minbari hubris that both races could be brought to that brink over something so simple.

However, -if- at any point Delenn had been captured and revealed as to her status, or the Minbari had (somehow) lost the war, she would have almost certainly been charged with war crimes and killed.

Just like Roosevelt and Truman would have been, if we had lost WWII.

To the victor go the spoils, and the writ of history. If you win, you can rewrite the rules all you want. Who is going to argue? You won.

 

[Gilvagor]

I'm not sure if this has been said (I didn't see it). When Sheridan was asked to join the ship Sheridan said that the captain was not good at first contact situations. It was either said or implied that he has caused a major situation before in first contact moments.

2nd Delen did say that they were unarmed. The Minbari ship was not actively targeting the EA forces.

The EA Captain did fire first while yes it was after their systems were down from the scan they should have followed orders in hands and jump out (their jump systems were online).

It was not suppose to be a first contact situation but the EA Captain did cause the war.

In the end it was the Minbari that did surrender so if Earth wanted to they could have insisted that the Grey Council (including Delen) be charged, but then I think they were just happy to still be alive.

It does have to be taken in the context of the time as well. The Minbari have never been attacked like that and Dukat(sp) was the best of them.

 

[locarno24]

If they had got to that point - wasn't the esculation to full war due to Sheridan et al otherwise it would have been the usual story between the two chess masters?

Combination of Sheridan and Lorien.

I think the Vorlon's presence on the Valen'Tha was probably allowed under the Rules of Engagement - given that they were acting in secret through an intermediary (Dukhat).

Even if acting through agents, at some point along the chain, someone has to actually deal with the First Ones, and for the hierachical Vorlons, going straight to the top of the pyramid (even if in secret) makes sense.




The 'Gun Ports Open', as noted, mirrors a gun salute. There's the unspoken assumption that the other side can see that the actual guns aren't powered up, though, which (through combination of stealth and sensor glare) they couldn't.

As noted, it doesn't take a genius to decide that a gun salute is possibly a bad response to first contact with a race of unknown metalogical leanings (as Dukhat figures out in about 0.00564 seconds). The Minbari may be insular, but they shouldn't be stupid.

The problem is that pretty much all contact with other species is likely to have been by the Worker Caste (who deal with the protectorate) and the Religious Caste (via the rangers)