Would a far/free trader ever use missiles?

[Arkathan]

Fair

...(and the world is full of stupid people). ...

Anyone who doubts this is referred to the Polk County Sheriff's YouTube channel for his shorts: Daily Briefings. Coffee cup and stupid criminal(s) of the day.

 

[Condottiere]

I like doughnuts.

Classic, black hole.

Sugared, not sprinkled.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Here is the Type A 200-Ton Q-ship I came up with. It looks like a TL12 free trader, but it's a TL15 trap instead. No small craft, though it does use an allowable ion cannon small bay to make purists scream. Those too opposed to ion weapons to allow it could swap out the ion cannon bay for a 3x size reduced small missile bay with the first salvo being jumpbreaker missiles and use the extra 10 tons as a missile magazine.

 

[Vormaerin]

My opinion is that it is not ubiquitous, and it is in those marginal worlds where pirates go to play.

lol. Nothing is ubiquitous. The game rules don't even guarantee that a class A starport has a high port. Because that might not be the sort of gameworld you want to create. It's pretty likely if you just roll dice, but it's not required or guaranteed on even the most developed world. If you aren't talking about any particular setting locale, you can envision any circumstance you want.

The problem with marginal worlds and pirates is that sure, the pirates can play there. But who are they playing with? The whole reason those worlds are marginal and have garbage facilities is that hardly anyone goes there.

Piracy requires both trade AND lack of defenses. Crappy backwaters are more likely to have raiders hitting the planet than anyone who expects to catch a ship. Though they are unlikely to object to attacking any free trader who is unlucky enough to come by at the wrong time. But anyone going there is going to be prepared to fight or flee. People generally object to being robbed and killed. So when that's a real risk, they either stop going there, they increase their guards, or they cry to the authorities. Areas of famous lawlessness like the Caribbean or the Wild West or whatnot are always localized and relatively short lived.

Charted Space has multiple areas that have that lack of authority mixed with actual opportunity for pirates. Because they are consciously set up for that kind of thing. The Trojan Reach for example. The triangle trade between the Aslan, the Empire, and Florians with all those half baked statelets in between. And its way away from the centers of power of either of the two big states. But the idea that inside the Imperium there's a sustainable piracy locus? Much less plausible.

The best way to create piracy inside the Imperium is not to try to find ways to justify squeezing it in the tiny region where jump ships operate, but to make all the systems bursting with secondary colonies, mining facilities, space stations and other stuff so that there is a lot of real space travel and too many spaceports to keep locked down.

Or, of course, a war. If you count raiding fleets as pirates

 

[Arkathan]

The best way to create piracy inside the Imperium is not to try to find ways to justify squeezing it in the tiny region where jump ships operate, but to make all the systems bursting with secondary colonies, mining facilities, space stations and other stuff so that there is a lot of real space travel and too many spaceports to keep locked down.

This is why I repeatedly advise new GMs, when they ask where to put such-and-such adventure world, to use one of the other planets/moons in a system so they can make the stats match without any fuss. At the very least, belters and robotic facilities will be producing SOMETHING of value in an spacefaring tech zone with a moderate population or higher.

I constantly make the players go to a minor planet, unless they are just passing through or getting some work done at the main port.

Additionally, low pop/low production primary worlds in the spurs of a main, that the mega corps don't frequent, see higher amounts of free trader traffic, and since there are a lot of those, worlds the patrols cannot be there all the time. Cat and mouse.

 

[swordtart]

Here is the Type A 200-Ton Q-ship I came up with. It looks like a TL12 free trader, but it's a TL15 trap instead. No small craft, though it does use an allowable ion cannon small bay to make purists scream. Those too opposed to ion weapons to allow it could swap out the ion cannon bay for a 3x size reduced small missile bay with the first salvo being jumpbreaker missiles and use the extra 10 tons as a missile magazine.

Blimey. Wouldn't want to face that.

It is very spendy, but my experience is that the overbudget special ops stuff goes through without a murmur yet buying replacement batteries is pored over by bean counters for months Give it a code word and the accountants can't even open the folder. I can see this as a sector fleet Admiral's pet project to get the politicians off his back about those pesky pirates that captured last months shipment of wine for the annual stakeholder's meeting.

You have 3 pilots (presumably 2 were for the deployable battle taxis). Could I suggest these be replaced with Sensor Operators and replace those cargo tons with an additional sensor stations. Since you are jumping from system to system regularly you can pick up supplies as you go. That will allow you to maintain your sensor locks and conduct other sensor tasks simultaneously.

Also some of the software e.g. Battle Net might be less applicable now that the ship is the boarding vessel itself. I suppose it depends if any other military vessels are within Long Range. If they are then there is probably less need a ship of this type. Then again it is only money and MCr10 on top of a MCr400+ ship is probably in the weeds but it might pacify the head-bean counter that "cost reductions have been made"

 

[Terry Mixon]

Blimey. Wouldn't want to face that.

It is very spendy, but my experience is that the overbudget special ops stuff goes through without a murmur yet buying replacement batteries is pored over by bean counters for months Give it a code word and the accountants can't even open the folder. I can see this as a sector fleet Admiral's pet project to get the politicians off his back about those pesky pirates that captured last months shipment of wine for the annual stakeholder's meeting.

You have 3 pilots (presumably 2 were for the deployable battle taxis). Could I suggest these be replaced with Sensor Operators and replace those cargo tons with an additional sensor stations. Since you are jumping from system to system regularly you can pick up supplies as you go. That will allow you to maintain your sensor locks and conduct other sensor tasks simultaneously.

Also some of the software e.g. Battle Net might be less applicable now that the ship is the boarding vessel itself. I suppose it depends if any other military vessels are within Long Range. If they are then there is probably less need a ship of this type. Then again it is only money and MCr10 on top of a MCr400+ ship is probably in the weeds but it might pacify the head-bean counter that "cost reductions have been made"

Good points. The number of pilots is because it has a military crew and that is standard. I suppose it allows a pilot to be on duty at all times and not fatigued. It had five before I cut the small craft. I figure for this ship, the Captain and Astrogator can also be pilots. That leaves room for more sensops.

The limiting factor in fitting things is quarters. This ship is packed full of people, and more are tough to fit in. I can go to a custom crew and trim a little, but there is little room to spare. The cargo was dedicated to parts and supplies, but I can trim that to the bone and do a bit more juggling.

Software fixed. It is expensive, for sure, but a fatal surprise to any pirate that comes calling.

 

[actionman]

Here is the Type A 200-Ton Q-ship I came up with. It looks like a TL12 free trader, but it's a TL15 trap instead. No small craft, though it does use an allowable ion cannon small bay to make purists scream. Those too opposed to ion weapons to allow it could swap out the ion cannon bay for a 3x size reduced small missile bay with the first salvo being jumpbreaker missiles and use the extra 10 tons as a missile magazine.

Is it possible/practical to put a battlefield artillery meson gun in the cargo hold of the ship or carry it with a large drone? A meson gun, even one meant for ground combat, would be able to penetrate anything without meson screens. I'm thinking of something from CT's Striker

"Rule 34: Meson Accelerators. Battlefield meson accelerators are introduced at tech level 15. Although technically a direct fire weapon (the beam travels in a straight line), a meson gun's ability to fire through intervening obstacles and the need to know the distance to target makes it functionally an indirect fire weapon. Meson accelerators follow the same rules as other indirect fire weapons with the following exceptions.

A. Fire Missions: Each meson accelerator is given a separate fire mission order. Because the meson beam travels at nearly the speed of light, meson accelerators suffer no delay for flight time (although they do suffer delays resulting from crew quality). The firing sheaf is a circle centered on the MPI (after deviation), with a radius equal to the weapon's burst size. For example, if a weapon had a burst size of 10 cm, every unit within 10 cm of the MPI would be affected. A meson accelerator may fire with less than its stated burst size; if so, the fire mission order must state the new burst size. ​

B. Effects: All personnel within the burst area of a meson accelerator are killed; all vehicles and weapons are destroyed; all buildings collapse and any smooth ground surface becomes broken ground." ​

C. Spotting: Meson accelerators may not be spotted by counter battery radar;they may not be spotted during a fire phase, only in a movement phase." CT Striker Book 2 pg. 5​

"Meson accelerators are available at tech level 15. They cost Cr 10,000,000, weigh 15 tons, and have a volume of 15m3. Burst size is 10cm. They require a crew of 6 and 250 megawatts of input." CT Striker Book 3 pg. 39

A drone able to maneuver carrying 15 ton object with a volume of 15m3 should be able to handle it, if firing it from the cargo bay isn't practical. Since the mesons pass through intervening matter, the cargo bay door wouldn't have to be open. As the pirate closes distance to take its prize, it gets a meson attack full in the face, right through it's armor. The interior of the ship would be devastated, and many if not all of the crew could be killed.

Does battlefield meson accelerator artillery still exist in MgT 2e?

 

[actionman]

and the world is full of stupid people

Tragically.

 

[actionman]

1. Instead of heaving to, you could ecks ray the spacecraft.

2. It would be interesting to know what happens to pacemakers in an ionic bombardment.

I would be interesting to know what happens to cybertech implants or cybertech limbs.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Is it possible/practical to put a battlefield artillery meson gun in the cargo hold of the ship or carry it with a large drone? A meson gun, even one meant for ground combat, would be able to penetrate anything without meson screens. I'm thinking of something from CT's Striker

"Rule 34: Meson Accelerators. Battlefield meson accelerators are introduced at tech level 15. Although technically a direct fire weapon (the beam travels in a straight line), a meson gun's ability to fire through intervening obstacles and the need to know the distance to target makes it functionally an indirect fire weapon. Meson accelerators follow the same rules as other indirect fire weapons with the following exceptions.

A. Fire Missions: Each meson accelerator is given a separate fire mission order. Because the meson beam travels at nearly the speed of light, meson accelerators suffer no delay for flight time (although they do suffer delays resulting from crew quality). The firing sheaf is a circle centered on the MPI (after deviation), with a radius equal to the weapon's burst size. For example, if a weapon had a burst size of 10 cm, every unit within 10 cm of the MPI would be affected. A meson accelerator may fire with less than its stated burst size; if so, the fire mission order must state the new burst size. ​

B. Effects: All personnel within the burst area of a meson accelerator are killed; all vehicles and weapons are destroyed; all buildings collapse and any smooth ground surface becomes broken ground." ​

C. Spotting: Meson accelerators may not be spotted by counter battery radar;they may not be spotted during a fire phase, only in a movement phase." CT Striker Book 2 pg. 5​

"Meson accelerators are available at tech level 15. They cost Cr 10,000,000, weigh 15 tons, and have a volume of 15m3. Burst size is 10cm. They require a crew of 6 and 250 megawatts of input." CT Striker Book 3 pg. 39

A drone able to maneuver carrying 15 ton object with a volume of 15m3 should be able to handle it, if firing it from the cargo bay isn't practical. Since the mesons pass through intervening matter, the cargo bay door wouldn't have to be open. As the pirate closes distance to take its prize, it gets a meson attack full in the face, right through it's armor. The interior of the ship would be devastated, and many if not all of the crew could be killed.

Does battlefield meson accelerator artillery still exist in MgT 2e?

We'll know more when the new vehicle handbook makes an appearance, but I wouldn't rule one out.

This ship has no space left for one, but it should be possible. Aiming it might be challenging.

 

[swordtart]

Is it possible/practical to put a battlefield artillery meson gun in the cargo hold of the ship or carry it with a large drone? A meson gun, even one meant for ground combat, would be able to penetrate anything without meson screens. I'm thinking of something from CT's Striker

"Rule 34: Meson Accelerators. Battlefield meson accelerators are introduced at tech level 15. Although technically a direct fire weapon (the beam travels in a straight line), a meson gun's ability to fire through intervening obstacles and the need to know the distance to target makes it functionally an indirect fire weapon. Meson accelerators follow the same rules as other indirect fire weapons with the following exceptions.

A. Fire Missions: Each meson accelerator is given a separate fire mission order. Because the meson beam travels at nearly the speed of light, meson accelerators suffer no delay for flight time (although they do suffer delays resulting from crew quality). The firing sheaf is a circle centered on the MPI (after deviation), with a radius equal to the weapon's burst size. For example, if a weapon had a burst size of 10 cm, every unit within 10 cm of the MPI would be affected. A meson accelerator may fire with less than its stated burst size; if so, the fire mission order must state the new burst size. ​

B. Effects: All personnel within the burst area of a meson accelerator are killed; all vehicles and weapons are destroyed; all buildings collapse and any smooth ground surface becomes broken ground." ​

C. Spotting: Meson accelerators may not be spotted by counter battery radar;they may not be spotted during a fire phase, only in a movement phase." CT Striker Book 2 pg. 5​

"Meson accelerators are available at tech level 15. They cost Cr 10,000,000, weigh 15 tons, and have a volume of 15m3. Burst size is 10cm. They require a crew of 6 and 250 megawatts of input." CT Striker Book 3 pg. 39

A drone able to maneuver carrying 15 ton object with a volume of 15m3 should be able to handle it, if firing it from the cargo bay isn't practical. Since the mesons pass through intervening matter, the cargo bay door wouldn't have to be open. As the pirate closes distance to take its prize, it gets a meson attack full in the face, right through it's armor. The interior of the ship would be devastated, and many if not all of the crew could be killed.

Does battlefield meson accelerator artillery still exist in MgT 2e?

High Guard (p40) does have rules for fitting battlefield weapons onto ships.

The Meson Accelerator in the CSC would take up 60 tons and would need to be mounted on a fixed mount. It is too large for a turret. it only has a range of 250 Km though.

 

[Sigtrygg]

A small meson bay would only be 35 tons - I still maintain the author of HG got bay weapon TLs totally arse backwards.

 

[swordtart]

A small meson bay would only be 35 tons - I still maintain the author of HG got bay weapon TLs totally arse backwards.

Aren't all small bays 50 tons? HG p31.

This is still much better value than bolting on a ground based one (and the bay one does does far more damage). The only benefit of the "small weapon" version is that it doesn't consume power (for whatever reason).

 

[swordtart]

How are mesons weapons suppose to work anyway. They only last a few 10ths of a nano second before deacying. Even if they moved at the speed of light they would only get 0.03m before decaying into something less interesting.

Probably don't want to open that bottle of space magic

Death Beams... it's space opera dammit!!

 

[Terry Mixon]

Aren't all small bays 50 tons? HG p31.

This is still much better value than bolting on a ground based one (and the bay one does does far more damage). The only benefit of the "small weapon" version is that it doesn't consume power (for whatever reason).

35 tons with 3x size reduction.

 

[Terry Mixon]

How are mesons weapons suppose to work anyway. They only last a few 10ths of a nano second before deacying. Even if they moved at the speed of light they would only get 0.03m before decaying into something less interesting.

Probably don't want to open that bottle of space magic

Death Beams... it's space opera dammit!!

Isn't it something about crossing the streams of them to cause a decay at a specific place?

 

[Condottiere]

The fun part is when you want to switch out the bay weapon systems, who have different customizations.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The fun part is when you want to switch out the bay weapon systems, who have different customizations.

I made a 125-ton battle rider with a modular 35-ton small bay weapon that could be swapped at need for a different kind of modular 35-ton small bay weapon. Small x3 was the key there.

 

[Arkathan]

The fun part is when you want to switch out the bay weapon systems, who have different customizations.

You just make the modules 50 tons. Then if you use one with small mods, the extra space is cargo/magazines, staterooms or whatever non-engineering systems will fit in 15 dtons of space.