Would a far/free trader ever use missiles?

[Vormaerin]

Or maybe a separate supplement along with the warp drives etc. I'll use the rules they put in the core books, but if they make it clear they are setting specific it is easier to ignore (and to explain to players that all that stuff isn't true in this game).

I would prefer that the core rules have the rules and not be setting specific. Instead of putting the the "things that aren't charted space" in a separate book, have a "You want to play in Charted Space? Here's the things that the setting uses" be the separate book. People buying the core rules shouldn't be limited by a particular setting's design decisions. The people playing in that setting should be the ones who need that clarification.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The Navy has Imperial Law behind them, but Imperial law is there to protect trade not harass it. Ordering a ship to heave to without justification is liable to get a junior officer an interview without coffee. Just pinging the transponder is proportionate. It is doesn't respond or comes back with anomalies then you have probable cause.

The ship exists solely to make those challenges. Trade isn't affected to a great degree. After all, trade is big ships, not those grubby little adventure class ships.

Orders to heave to and negative responses if they don't are standard. You want to take your chances, then you pay the price.

What evidence are you expecting to find on a vessel that has already cleared customs on the planet and the only piracy it was intending was aborted before it happened.

What does any Navy ship expect to find when they order ships to heave to?

I think you need that 200 tonner (with the ion barbettes). With those in place I think will you probably catch them red handed. It isn't an expensive operation on your part either though since it relies on you jumping in each time you won't always catch a fish (but you can just bounce from system to system) forcing the pirates to try to guess where you will be next.

The countermeasure for the pirates will be insider information, tracking a score of Marines and half a dozen other crew might leave a trail that a resourceful pirate could exploit. It becomes cat and mouse (as it should) and far more than conversations about whether a particular piece of equipment or policy negates piracy.

These are valid.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The line for action is when you have Traffic control tell them to get the f' out of that flight path and they don't do it.

I'm being more lackadaisical as that was the general scenario that was being discussed.

 

[Vormaerin]

I know. But even at the 100d limit you are only a 3-4 seconds comms lag from the starport. You don't have to reveal your Q-ship status if you just have the starport tell anyone remotely resembling an intercept course to veer off. So any such possible pirate will have to announce their intentions long before they get close enough to be a threat.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I know. But even at the 100d limit you are only a 3-4 seconds comms lag from the starport. You don't have to reveal your Q-ship status if you just have the starport tell anyone remotely resembling an intercept course to veer off. So any such possible pirate will have to announce their intentions long before they get close enough to be a threat.

So long as the sensor rules let the starport see the ships.

 

[Vormaerin]

They let you send the starport your sensor data if they don't

 

[Ol'Weedy]

You will be saying that makes dogfighting impossible next.

Yes. Yes I am.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I would prefer that the core rules have the rules and not be setting specific. Instead of putting the the "things that aren't charted space" in a separate book, have a "You want to play in Charted Space? Here's the things that the setting uses" be the separate book. People buying the core rules shouldn't be limited by a particular setting's design decisions. The people playing in that setting should be the ones who need that clarification.

"The Traveller rules are for a referee to explore the universe of their making. Since not everyone has the time GDW produced a sample setting that became something of a "standard" setting which is known as The Imperium. Other settings have been published over the years for example the 2300AD setting.
Throughout this core rule book there are many technologies and options that can be used, those that apply to The Imperium are highlighted by... , those relevant to the 2300AD setting are highlighed by..."

 

[Sigtrygg]

I await your proposal with interest.

Working on it, I started a thread about it...

 

[Sigtrygg]

I know. But even at the 100d limit you are only a 3-4 seconds comms lag from the starport. You don't have to reveal your Q-ship status if you just have the starport tell anyone remotely resembling an intercept course to veer off. So any such possible pirate will have to announce their intentions long before they get close enough to be a threat.

But, but, comms can't be detected over such a range, the sensor rules...

 

[Sigtrygg]

So long as the sensor rules let the starport see the ships.

The starport sensors should be able to see everything out to 200D, in addition detect transponder, active pings and comms signals from anywhere in the system.

 

[swordtart]

The ship exists solely to make those challenges. Trade isn't affected to a great degree. After all, trade is big ships, not those grubby little adventure class ships.

Spoken like a true oligarch I suppose kicking down the door every other week might be considered a price worth paying by the empire. Whether the colonial government feels the same way is probably the turning point. If you did that in some systems then you might actually turn them into pirate havens.

Orders to heave to and negative responses if they don't are standard. You want to take your chances, then you pay the price.

It is more heavy handed than I was anticipating. It is in line with the government in Firefly and in Star Wars.

What does any Navy ship expect to find when they order ships to heave to?

Belligerence compliance and claims of harassment I suppose that is how you gain enemies and contacts.

I am trying to see what would constitute proof of piracy other than being caught in the act, it seems very easy to conceal to me. All you need is a clean ship and you are no different to any other non-pirate adventure class ship. Armaments are not unusual on ships. Scouts come with military grade sensors off the bat and good sensors are as valuable for avoiding pirates as being one. You can behave for a few weeks and your logs will be clean. Unless every carrot is barcoded you can sell off stolen cargo freely. Your biggest risk is chatty crews but you can take measures to manage that (Captain sprocket and his robo-crew).

 

[Vormaerin]

Not to mention my favorite "glue some additional sensors to the James Webb Telescope at the L2 so it's an additional EMS array at 125D"...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Spoken like a true oligarch I suppose kicking down the door every other week might be considered a price worth paying by the empire. Whether the colonial government feels the same way is probably the turning point. If you did that in some systems then you might actually turn them into pirate havens.

Pretty much what I was aiming for.

I am trying to see what would constitute proof of piracy other than being caught in the act, it seems very easy to conceal to me. All you need is a clean ship and you are no different to any other non-pirate adventure class ship. Armaments are not unusual on ships. Scouts come with military grade sensors off the bat and good sensors are as valuable for avoiding pirates as being one. You can behave for a few weeks and your logs will be clean. Unless every carrot is barcoded you can sell off stolen cargo freely. Your biggest risk is chatty crews but you can take measures to manage that (Captain sprocket and his robo-crew).

Multiple transponders, computer traces that show the ship was intentionally seeking the Q-Ship, boarding weapons, crew with criminal records linking them to piracy adjacent things, tracing the ship back to systems with similar pirate acts, sensor reading of ships lost to piracy, etc. Wiping the computers would remove the data unless it could be recovered, but that is potentially proof of guilt to the jack-booted Imperials.

 

[swordtart]

The starport sensors should be able to see everything out to 200D, in addition detect transponder, active pings and comms signals from anywhere in the system.

Seeing ships out to that range is already possible. Picking up active transponders, ping responses and comms is also possible. What is not possible is picking up transponders that are in passive mode (by design). If no comms are sent (or only innocuous comms are sent) they won't reveal much unless your players make the "uhh, were all fine, how are you" type persuade fails.

What is not possible is tracking them with any fidelity without making repeated sensor rolls (making a detailed sensor scan is a routine check but it takes 1D x10 minutes). You probably need more than just planetary sensors to triangulate (but this isn't explicitly stated). If these things were automatic (and they could be if you want them to be, you just need expert systems or robots) and you have patrolling ships coordinating then you could have that sensor net. It would however be expensive to implement and maintain and there would be gaps due to geography, circumstance, breakdowns and incompetence but there is nothing preventing you from having it per the rules.

My opinion is that it is not ubiquitous, and it is in those marginal worlds where pirates go to play.

It it is ubiquitous then the universe becomes a bit clockwork and the space for adventure closes up.

 

[swordtart]

Pretty much what I was aiming for.

Fair

Multiple transponders, computer traces that show the ship was intentionally seeking the Q-Ship, boarding weapons, crew with criminal records linking them to piracy adjacent things, tracing the ship back to systems with similar pirate acts, sensor reading of ships lost to piracy, etc. Wiping the computers would remove the data unless it could be recovered, but that is potentially proof of guilt to the jack-booted Imperials.

You will catch stupid pirates (and the world is full of stupid people). For a quick promotion and a show of force that is probably enough. It gives enough space for clever pirates to evade capture and I am only looking to allow a few through the net in the name of variety.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The Third Imperium has been installing sensor platforms for a thousand years. Look what Starlink has manged in just five.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Instead of heaving to, you could ecks ray the spacecraft.

2. It would be interesting to know what happens to pacemakers in an ionic bombardment.

 

[swordtart]

The Third Imperium has been installing sensor platforms for a thousand years. Look what Starlink has manged in just five.

That is very setting specific, and it isn't the ones that were installed 1000, 100 or even 20 years ago that matter it's the ones that are still working at the time of need and have been maintained all that time.

I thought Starlink was a comms network not a space sensor network. It doesn't scan space as far as I know (but then who knows what Elon does on the QT). It also purportedly cost $1 billion (if Wikipedia is to be believed) which seems a heck of a lot of money for a small colony to stump up.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Fair

You will catch stupid pirates (and the world is full of stupid people). For a quick promotion and a show of force that is probably enough. It gives enough space for clever pirates to evade capture and I am only looking to allow a few through the net in the name of variety.

Seems like what the Imperium might do. Now, once I create that 200-ton Q-Ship, then that one will have the proof through actions.