Doing the same with Fantasy. They released the Lizardmen Army List and then announced that they were redoing the rules and all the army lists within a month. And Lizardmen will, again, be the last to get their list published. So I get to use the old books against the new armies. Whoopie!
wonder why mini production stopped?
- Thread starter darknight
- Start date
EDFDarkAngel1
Mongoose
Is it too much to ask that they take their time to do the rules right the first time?
War Machine has been out for, what, 7 years? They've launched ONE book to update their rules. What's Warhammer up to now?
Dark Angel
War Machine has been out for, what, 7 years? They've launched ONE book to update their rules. What's Warhammer up to now?
Dark Angel
EDFDarkAngel1
Mongoose
They should come out with one rulebook with ALL of the races and armies in it. Eliminates confusion and makes it easy for the players.
Dark Angel
Dark Angel
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
EDFDarkAngel1 said:
I can understand the need for multiple source books. its handy. You know that everything you need for X race is in one location.
That being said.. there is a point where it is overdone. And if you are updating everything every year, it becomes retarded.
http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e#ogl
Looks like WOtC are charging the $5000 for getting the 4th Ed material a few months before it'd be otherwise released to everybody else, meaning that whoever forks out for earlybird access will be able to put their books out before the others who don't. From a business POV, it's questionable as to whether that makes it a real choice or not. And I'm sure it's just wild coincidence that it can be easily typoed as $th ed...
Know what you mean about the Codexes, I play Space Wolves, whose codex hasn't been revised since ~2003, or whenever 3rd Ed W40K came out... On the upside I can field some typically GW broken stuff that they can't :twisted:
On topic, I really hope Mongoose can bring their mini production back online sometime, even if it's only for a month or two a year, which might keep production costs down enough for it to be viable. That and I really wanna see a new Omega mini!
Looks like WOtC are charging the $5000 for getting the 4th Ed material a few months before it'd be otherwise released to everybody else, meaning that whoever forks out for earlybird access will be able to put their books out before the others who don't. From a business POV, it's questionable as to whether that makes it a real choice or not. And I'm sure it's just wild coincidence that it can be easily typoed as $th ed...
Know what you mean about the Codexes, I play Space Wolves, whose codex hasn't been revised since ~2003, or whenever 3rd Ed W40K came out... On the upside I can field some typically GW broken stuff that they can't :twisted:
On topic, I really hope Mongoose can bring their mini production back online sometime, even if it's only for a month or two a year, which might keep production costs down enough for it to be viable. That and I really wanna see a new Omega mini!
Mhm,
even if wotc might do this simply they can, it is understandable that they don't want everyother company to copy their rules freely. They had the work in creating the new rules so they have the right to charge a licensing fee for using them. That's business. Even if this might mean the end for many other games who can't pay the cost.
But back to topic. I hope that MGP will resume miniatures production as soon as possible as I don't think the game will sell itself here in Germany with counters, even high quality ones. The players in my region want miniatures for their games they can assemble, paint and modify.
Tolwyn said:
Very true. I've been pushing this game for about 18months here, and I've managed to drum up 5 serious players. By serious I mean people who have gone out and got fleets. But I don't fancy my odd at getting anyone else into the game, without minies it is hard to get wargamers interested. We like our toys down here.
EDFDarkAngel1 said:
but then you are thinking like a gamer. Think like a business man (or woman) thats how Mongoose, GW, Wizards etc all look at this. it is a business. A business exists to make profits, and while people continue to buy 43 different supplements and updates every 12 months, they will continue to make them and keep the accounting department very happy and very busy.
no doubt you will look at war machine, however they keep producing new minis and you have power creep, and everything gets harder, so people NEEd to buy the new stuff or their mates will batter them in games, so it goes on. and their may not be many rules, but there are several books that you must just have. true, they ain't seemingly like some of the other companies, but given the chance,. .
its a shame you know down here in the darkest devon, most people are selling all there fleets as they dont want another game thats not supported by minis, they are all going over to warmachine and hordes, like me, thanks to a few on here, i now have hardly any room left in the house 
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
darknight said:its a shame you know down here in the darkest devon, most people are selling all there fleets as they dont want another game thats not supported by minis, they are all going over to warmachine and hordes, like me, thanks to a few on here, i now have hardly any room left in the house
Im the one responcable I'll take full responcability
It might just be me. But I can't understand way people are up and selling their fleets. Ok the company isn't going to be making anymore minies in the forseeable future, but the game itself is still a very enjoyable game. Why not just keep playing with what you have? Does the fact that there isn't going to be any more minies sold make the fleets you have worthless? And the game not worth playing anymore?
This announcement kind of makes me want to hang on tighter to the fleets I have, especially concidering all the time I put into building and painting them.
This announcement kind of makes me want to hang on tighter to the fleets I have, especially concidering all the time I put into building and painting them.
Clanger
Mongoose
I think people selling their fleets just want to make a fast pound with inflated prices because the company has stopped doing the minis.
I intend to keep all my fleets and I enjoy the game (very very rare for me to like a mini game. Battletech being the last one). I intend along with my fellow compatriots to keep playing.
Those that say they are not playing because there are no minis coming out are missing out on what is a good game. Thinking like that will be the death of the game. If we still support it and play it. It means the game survives.
I intend to keep all my fleets and I enjoy the game (very very rare for me to like a mini game. Battletech being the last one). I intend along with my fellow compatriots to keep playing.
Those that say they are not playing because there are no minis coming out are missing out on what is a good game. Thinking like that will be the death of the game. If we still support it and play it. It means the game survives.
I am not selling cos they aren't making mini's, i am selling a couple of fleets to make room for the other ones, and because their is no guarantee that this isn't the start of something worse to come.
Also by selling some mini's, i am actually helping new players or existing players build fleets themselves!
Also by selling some mini's, i am actually helping new players or existing players build fleets themselves!
Speaking as one of the lunatics dumping ships like there's no tomorrow, I'm not doing it because I'm abandoning the game. I've not played much but I really do enjoy it and will not miss an opportunity to have a game. I'm selling because of circumstances at home meaning I have to find cash in a hurry. There's not actually been anything I've bought that I've wanted to sell but the situation here has forced my hand.
Plus as I understand it you can still get minis from the old AOG site.
It will be interesting to see what the ruling is on non MGP minis in tournaments in the future given they are not produced any more.
Sadly I am presuming licencing forbids them from using "suggested" alternatives as for instance GW does in its Wild West game etc? It would be nice - months down the road from them to produce a book with "new" ships for races and suggest "the following models could be used in the absence of official ones".................
ah well see what happens!
It will be interesting to see what the ruling is on non MGP minis in tournaments in the future given they are not produced any more.
Sadly I am presuming licencing forbids them from using "suggested" alternatives as for instance GW does in its Wild West game etc? It would be nice - months down the road from them to produce a book with "new" ships for races and suggest "the following models could be used in the absence of official ones".................
ah well see what happens!
katadder said:
Not always the reason, especially for earlier versions of games and smaller companies.
Popular games receive constant development, new units and armies, rules tweaks, and so on. Sometimes a new edition is desirable simply to tie everything together into something more cohesive. CTA 2e is an example of this - it was not released to 'cash in', but to draw together Armageddon, SFoS, the rules supplements and various bits and pieces in S&P.
But it bears no resemblance whatsoever, to Armageddon, SFOS, rules supplements or S&P articles (except 2e preview articles of course!)... it has new beam rules, new AF, totally changed shadows and vorlons and many more dramatic changes. I'm not saying that it was just to cash in, I'm just saying that it is most certainly not a drawing together of all the rules supplements either!msprange said:
Tzarevitch
Mongoose
:x
OK I have stayed silent on this long enough and please excuse me if I offend anyone unintentionally but I have seen similar threads pop up on other game boards every time a gaming company has the temerity to try and release an update.
Why pray tell does everyone think that the company doesn't have a right to try to make a profit off of a good product that people enjoy, and why do people think the hobby must remain stagnant just because they don't want to or can't pay for a new product now and then? If people enjoy the product enough to be posting in the forum, you'd think people would want it to stay alive. R&D costs money, printing costs money, production of minis and game supplies costs money, paying staff employees costs money. I can't speak on on GW because I don't play their stuff, but why is it my fellow gamers seem to think that a company should release a supplement once ever and NEVER update it?
Every time a rules revision comes out in every game system I play a vocal minority howls about the company actually trying to make money and changing rules and re-publishing materials after a mere decade or so. People will shell out for a new up-to-date computer every couple of years because the old one is too slow, but heaven forbid Mongoose or WotC updates and re-introduces new rules for more efficient play and asks the fans to pay $30 for a book every few years and the sky is falling. :?
1. The publisher has a right to actually make some money. If they make a reasonable profit they will continue to publish good and entertaining products for us. That doesn't mean they should get paid for crap, but if the product is good enough that people play it the company should get a reward and incentive to make more.
2. Times change, rules get stale. The longer any rule system exists, the more people can exploit the holes in the rules and the less efficiently it functions. It happened with 1e ACtA, it happened with 3e AD&D. That alone is good reason for revisions. 2 years or so is plenty of time for a re-publication. Since re-publications cost money, it is reasonable that the company will actually expect the consumers to contribute to this. If the consumer doesn't want to purchase the new rules, he shouldn't do so. But don't complain about the company attempting to update for those of us who DO want the update.
Using WotC for example, it baffles me that after a mere 8 years people don't think it is time for a revision and are howling about the fact they may have to spend $30 to replace a book. Nowadays people don't own cars or computers that long and those are thousand-dollar purchases, yet a rules set is supposed to last forever. I am glad the complainers aren't responsible for purchasing school textbooks or the children would probably still be learning about the recent victory in the War to End All Wars. :roll:
The same is true of Mongoose. Everyone wants to play the game and wants the game to endure but the howls start at the prospect of actually having to pay for a book or any attempt that is made to upgrade the game that will cost the consumer some money. Everyone allegedly wants mini production to continue but they howl about the cost, as if there is some magic method of producing a Ka'bin'tak mini that costs a mere $2. The mini costs what it costs to make + a bit of profit for the company. If people don't want to pay for it, production will cease. That's all. I don't use minis so I won't pay for them, but I also don't turn around and complain that I am not getting minis. I know that not everyone falls into this category but there are plenty of people on this forum who do. I know because I have seen the posts.
Now don't take this to mean I condone strange tactics that some companies (GW in particular) take toward profitability but parts of this hobby are expensive to produce (miniatures in particular). It is perfectly reasonable for a company to release new versions of something a few years later. They do this because the market is saturated with the old product and no-one is buying it anymore, so you update it and re-release it. If the company updated and re-released something like an army list quickly, it is probably popular and profitable or it has a serious flaw. If something has gone several passes and not received an update, it is probably unprofitable or relatively free of flaws.
MMORPGS receive a steady stream of cash in the form of subscriptions. Tabletop games don't have that luxury. They HAVE to release new products to keep alive not just maintain existing ones. Note that even MMORPGS do not merely maintain existing content so why do people expect tabletop publishers to do that. Truthfully, if you don't like the new product that a company has released don't buy it. Game designers aren't perfect, sometimes the product isn't very good, but don't complain about them trying.
Lastly, I do not work for Mongoose or WotC or any other game company. I am an avid fan of the hobby who would like to see it stay alive. The rules of the game are simple: if you like the product then buy it. If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. If the product is poor, THAT is when you complain, AND then you don't buy it. If the product is good and you like it but you can't afford it or simply are cheap, don't complain to the company or to us. It's not that we don't have sympathy, but there is nothing we can do for you and that is NOT a reason the company shouldn't produce it anyway for the benefit of those who can and will buy it.
Rant over. Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.
Tzarevitch
OK I have stayed silent on this long enough and please excuse me if I offend anyone unintentionally but I have seen similar threads pop up on other game boards every time a gaming company has the temerity to try and release an update.
Why pray tell does everyone think that the company doesn't have a right to try to make a profit off of a good product that people enjoy, and why do people think the hobby must remain stagnant just because they don't want to or can't pay for a new product now and then? If people enjoy the product enough to be posting in the forum, you'd think people would want it to stay alive. R&D costs money, printing costs money, production of minis and game supplies costs money, paying staff employees costs money. I can't speak on on GW because I don't play their stuff, but why is it my fellow gamers seem to think that a company should release a supplement once ever and NEVER update it?
Every time a rules revision comes out in every game system I play a vocal minority howls about the company actually trying to make money and changing rules and re-publishing materials after a mere decade or so. People will shell out for a new up-to-date computer every couple of years because the old one is too slow, but heaven forbid Mongoose or WotC updates and re-introduces new rules for more efficient play and asks the fans to pay $30 for a book every few years and the sky is falling. :?
1. The publisher has a right to actually make some money. If they make a reasonable profit they will continue to publish good and entertaining products for us. That doesn't mean they should get paid for crap, but if the product is good enough that people play it the company should get a reward and incentive to make more.
2. Times change, rules get stale. The longer any rule system exists, the more people can exploit the holes in the rules and the less efficiently it functions. It happened with 1e ACtA, it happened with 3e AD&D. That alone is good reason for revisions. 2 years or so is plenty of time for a re-publication. Since re-publications cost money, it is reasonable that the company will actually expect the consumers to contribute to this. If the consumer doesn't want to purchase the new rules, he shouldn't do so. But don't complain about the company attempting to update for those of us who DO want the update.
Using WotC for example, it baffles me that after a mere 8 years people don't think it is time for a revision and are howling about the fact they may have to spend $30 to replace a book. Nowadays people don't own cars or computers that long and those are thousand-dollar purchases, yet a rules set is supposed to last forever. I am glad the complainers aren't responsible for purchasing school textbooks or the children would probably still be learning about the recent victory in the War to End All Wars. :roll:
The same is true of Mongoose. Everyone wants to play the game and wants the game to endure but the howls start at the prospect of actually having to pay for a book or any attempt that is made to upgrade the game that will cost the consumer some money. Everyone allegedly wants mini production to continue but they howl about the cost, as if there is some magic method of producing a Ka'bin'tak mini that costs a mere $2. The mini costs what it costs to make + a bit of profit for the company. If people don't want to pay for it, production will cease. That's all. I don't use minis so I won't pay for them, but I also don't turn around and complain that I am not getting minis. I know that not everyone falls into this category but there are plenty of people on this forum who do. I know because I have seen the posts.
Now don't take this to mean I condone strange tactics that some companies (GW in particular) take toward profitability but parts of this hobby are expensive to produce (miniatures in particular). It is perfectly reasonable for a company to release new versions of something a few years later. They do this because the market is saturated with the old product and no-one is buying it anymore, so you update it and re-release it. If the company updated and re-released something like an army list quickly, it is probably popular and profitable or it has a serious flaw. If something has gone several passes and not received an update, it is probably unprofitable or relatively free of flaws.
MMORPGS receive a steady stream of cash in the form of subscriptions. Tabletop games don't have that luxury. They HAVE to release new products to keep alive not just maintain existing ones. Note that even MMORPGS do not merely maintain existing content so why do people expect tabletop publishers to do that. Truthfully, if you don't like the new product that a company has released don't buy it. Game designers aren't perfect, sometimes the product isn't very good, but don't complain about them trying.
Lastly, I do not work for Mongoose or WotC or any other game company. I am an avid fan of the hobby who would like to see it stay alive. The rules of the game are simple: if you like the product then buy it. If you don't like the product, then don't buy it. If the product is poor, THAT is when you complain, AND then you don't buy it. If the product is good and you like it but you can't afford it or simply are cheap, don't complain to the company or to us. It's not that we don't have sympathy, but there is nothing we can do for you and that is NOT a reason the company shouldn't produce it anyway for the benefit of those who can and will buy it.
Rant over. Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.
Tzarevitch
