Foxmeister
Mongoose
Tolwyn said:
The question is, how much damage was caused by the "shot" itself, and how much was caused by the criticals it may have caused?
Regards,
Dave
Wish List for Babylon 5 ACTA
- Thread starter Cavalier1645
- Start date
The question is, how much damage was caused by the "shot" itself, and how much was caused by the criticals it may have caused?
Regards,
Dave
Just played a game... & raid Narn vs EA 3rd... second turn a Narn shoots it's beam into one Omega (we each took 2 battle pl ships) and boom... undamaged to dead...
As to how often can you roll up... our average beam roll for the day was likely 50% above on almost all beams shots for the game. The Omegas regularly fired for 10 hits, Narn were hitting for 7 or more its with their 5 AD beams... so fairly frequently.
As to crits vs hits... DD 6-5 and 6-6 crits are huge.
Ripple
As to how often can you roll up... our average beam roll for the day was likely 50% above on almost all beams shots for the game. The Omegas regularly fired for 10 hits, Narn were hitting for 7 or more its with their 5 AD beams... so fairly frequently.
As to crits vs hits... DD 6-5 and 6-6 crits are huge.
Ripple
Sting52jb said:Here are some ships that i would love to not only see stats for but possibly miniatures of in the future.
Achilles class Light Cruiser, a Dilgar War ships
Arctic class Cruiser EA civil war replacement for the Hypernion
Tempest class Crusier EA post Civil War replacement for the Hypernion
The Starfire
and finally
The Toshikin class Cruiser a post IA Brakiri cruiser designed to supplement the Avoiki
Where did you get these from? They look sweet.
The Achilles came from the Great Machine Web Magazine.
The Arctic, Tempest, and Starfire all came from the BabCom Web Magazine.
and the Toshikin came from the Wolfs Ship Yards web sight.
The Great Machine and BabCom were both Magazines that supported B5Wars, but the last few issues of The Great Machine also had articles for A Call to Arms, while BabCom also support Fleet Action, Fleet Action 2, and GROUPS.
You can still find these magazines for download at http://planetside.firenebula.com/ a web sight devoted to B5Wars.
You may want to check out deviant art as there are a few talanted artist on there that have created B5 ships here are a few examples.
A much sweeter version of a Whit Star Gunship.
And a sleeker better looking version of the Morshin.
The Arctic, Tempest, and Starfire all came from the BabCom Web Magazine.
and the Toshikin came from the Wolfs Ship Yards web sight.
The Great Machine and BabCom were both Magazines that supported B5Wars, but the last few issues of The Great Machine also had articles for A Call to Arms, while BabCom also support Fleet Action, Fleet Action 2, and GROUPS.
You can still find these magazines for download at http://planetside.firenebula.com/ a web sight devoted to B5Wars.
You may want to check out deviant art as there are a few talanted artist on there that have created B5 ships here are a few examples.
A much sweeter version of a Whit Star Gunship.
And a sleeker better looking version of the Morshin.
Tja, coupled with one 6-6 Crit and a good roll the Narn player got 7 shots out of his laser cannon and 4 out of the Mag Gun, the Mag Gun then caused the crit and ca boom, one Omega destroyed and the game lost for me. Not much fun in the game.
I'm starting to hate the beam rules all together :evil:
They are by now means balanced and break games that would have become very fun and joiful games. And they largely favour the small ships instead of larger ships gaming stile as my hull 6 is of no use against it while smaller ships get favoured by the 4+ roll. Not much fun.
I'm starting to hate the beam rules all together :evil:
They are by now means balanced and break games that would have become very fun and joiful games. And they largely favour the small ships instead of larger ships gaming stile as my hull 6 is of no use against it while smaller ships get favoured by the 4+ roll. Not much fun.
Ok you didnt enjoy this particular game, fair enough.
But how many times have you seen Beam guns do practically nothing!
In our gaming club it too many times to count!
People will either like the current Beam rules or dislike them.
It is always going to be as simple as that.
A lot os use dont see it as broken just a fair bit to unpredictable!
It'll either work (which in your situation they did unfortunately) or they dont!
What Blasted you in this case it seems wasnt "just " the Beams but a very lucky roll of a 6-6 on the crit table.
So when someone is rolling that lucky (Star-Lynx in perticular on Friday against Funbeast, who couldnt roll to hit the broad side of a Planet let alone a barn) you just got no hope!
But how many times have you seen Beam guns do practically nothing!
In our gaming club it too many times to count!
People will either like the current Beam rules or dislike them.
It is always going to be as simple as that.
A lot os use dont see it as broken just a fair bit to unpredictable!
It'll either work (which in your situation they did unfortunately) or they dont!
What Blasted you in this case it seems wasnt "just " the Beams but a very lucky roll of a 6-6 on the crit table.
So when someone is rolling that lucky (Star-Lynx in perticular on Friday against Funbeast, who couldnt roll to hit the broad side of a Planet let alone a barn) you just got no hope!
As for the beam problem:
A friend of mine has such a dice luck, that he does get 100-150% hits with the beams (in regard to AD)!
Crap he does also manage to get 15-20 hits with a 5ad beam at least once every two games!
(and before one asks....I even had him use my dices once......another 15
hit attack.....and I for myself am always having trouble rolling anything above 4!)
Regardless of that I'm still having no real problem with the beam rules,
but if you are having troubles with it, you could houserule that there
is a max cap to the amount of hits one can do with a beam (was suggested in another thread in this forum....I think it was 3 per AD
of the beam).....at least if you don't want to change how beams
work completely (via houserule).
A friend of mine has such a dice luck, that he does get 100-150% hits with the beams (in regard to AD)!
Crap he does also manage to get 15-20 hits with a 5ad beam at least once every two games!
(and before one asks....I even had him use my dices once......another 15
hit attack.....and I for myself am always having trouble rolling anything above 4!)
Regardless of that I'm still having no real problem with the beam rules,
but if you are having troubles with it, you could houserule that there
is a max cap to the amount of hits one can do with a beam (was suggested in another thread in this forum....I think it was 3 per AD
of the beam).....at least if you don't want to change how beams
work completely (via houserule).
The crit was hard enough, but it was not the first time I saw this sort of beam over shot. I happened at our club fairly often enough so we consider this rule nearly broken. The beams are one of the worst new rules in end ED. The 1st Ed rules were fine, not this crap in 2nd Ed
The Beam rules were one of the most debated topis I've ever seen. Regretably there is nothing done to change them, even not in P&P.
That's very very sorry IMO as it definitly has to be balanced.
Such nasty mechanis won't help ACTA in the future to get a positiv come back.
The Beam rules were one of the most debated topis I've ever seen. Regretably there is nothing done to change them, even not in P&P.
That's very very sorry IMO as it definitly has to be balanced.
Such nasty mechanis won't help ACTA in the future to get a positiv come back.
Sting52jb said:Here are some ships that i would love to not only see stats for but possibly miniatures of in the future.
Achilles class Light Cruiser, a Dilgar War ships
Arctic class Cruiser EA civil war replacement for the Hypernion
Tempest class Crusier EA post Civil War replacement for the Hypernion
The Starfire
and finally
The Toshikin class Cruiser a post IA Brakiri cruiser designed to supplement the Avoiki
the toshikin I have statted up to include in the brakiri fleets in the LONAW supplement I am working on. the others may be interesting to add to EA fleets although TBH they have enough ships really.
Toshikin Advanced Frigate Raid
The Toshikin is the latest vessel to come out of Brakiri space. Whilst not as tough as older Brakiri vessels it does make use of more advanced technology than has previously been seen in their fleet and can only have come from collaboration with the ISA and other member races.
Speed: 12 Damage: 28/6 Craft: 1 Falkosi Flight
Turn: 2/45 Crew: 32/6 Special Rules: Agile, Advanced Jump Engine,
Anti-Fighter 2, Flight Computer, Interceptors 2
Hull: 5 Troops: 3 In Service: 2268+
Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Gravitic Lance 30 F 2 Super AP, Triple Damage
Grav Cannon 18 F 4 Precise, Super AP
Graviton Pulsar 12 A 4 AP
Graviton Pulsar 12 P 6 AP
Graviton Pulsar 12 S 6 AP
I figured that with such a great weapon the brakiri really need to make more use of gravitic lances.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
How often do you see beams practically cutting ships in half in B5? Answer: too many times to mention!
I think the current beam mechanic simulates what we see on the screen quite well.
Regards,
Dave
I think the current beam mechanic simulates what we see on the screen quite well.
Regards,
Dave
While I agree we see beams cut ships in half... how many of those are not from a Shadow ship, or against a ship that is trying to die? The Omega that shoots the two civilian luxury liners?
The issue right now is that beams are completely unpredictable. Goes back to the unfun issue we see with stealth. You drive 45 minutes to get in a game and then you can't make your first ten stealth rolls and the game is over, you try to play again and you make the next ten and wipe the floor with Minbari... no fun was had by any.
Does this happen often... frankly yes. This I guess is where our group differs from Grunvalds, we see big luck one way or the other most games, and rarely see any balance in a single game. And yes, we usually do track dice through the whole game... so we not 'just remembering the exceptional'.
This can be okay, it's certainly balanced... but it isn't fun. We have a two entire groups that dropped the game due to lack of balance within the PLs and the number of 'unfun' rules. So I think it is an issue.
And fluff wise, some beams should cut things in half... no doubt... but they should also do so consistently. We don't see Omega's cutting each other in half during the EA civil war. We don't see the Narn cutting the Centauri in half.
What we do see is Minbari cutting in half a Minbari ship that doesn't seem to have its defenses up. Shadows cut a number of things in half. A number of shadows pinning and 'burst' by various sustained beams. The Civilians liners...
Any others? I don't have the movies and haven't watched through all the series again looking for examples lately. Just don't want to see the lucky Ka'toc roll slicing a Victory in half...
And yes, the crit table plays into it... I'm at the point of wanting to just ban the whole vitals table from play sometimes.
And I won the game I just played where I lost my Omega in the second turn without it ever firing a shot due to one beam shot from the Narn. So it's not about winning and losing, its about having fun throughout the game.
Ripple
The issue right now is that beams are completely unpredictable. Goes back to the unfun issue we see with stealth. You drive 45 minutes to get in a game and then you can't make your first ten stealth rolls and the game is over, you try to play again and you make the next ten and wipe the floor with Minbari... no fun was had by any.
Does this happen often... frankly yes. This I guess is where our group differs from Grunvalds, we see big luck one way or the other most games, and rarely see any balance in a single game. And yes, we usually do track dice through the whole game... so we not 'just remembering the exceptional'.
This can be okay, it's certainly balanced... but it isn't fun. We have a two entire groups that dropped the game due to lack of balance within the PLs and the number of 'unfun' rules. So I think it is an issue.
And fluff wise, some beams should cut things in half... no doubt... but they should also do so consistently. We don't see Omega's cutting each other in half during the EA civil war. We don't see the Narn cutting the Centauri in half.
What we do see is Minbari cutting in half a Minbari ship that doesn't seem to have its defenses up. Shadows cut a number of things in half. A number of shadows pinning and 'burst' by various sustained beams. The Civilians liners...
Any others? I don't have the movies and haven't watched through all the series again looking for examples lately. Just don't want to see the lucky Ka'toc roll slicing a Victory in half...
And yes, the crit table plays into it... I'm at the point of wanting to just ban the whole vitals table from play sometimes.
And I won the game I just played where I lost my Omega in the second turn without it ever firing a shot due to one beam shot from the Narn. So it's not about winning and losing, its about having fun throughout the game.
Ripple
Ripple said:
We see both ways either big luck one way or big luck the other, and we see games just played that are just plain average!
Beams will either work or not.
Stealth, youll either see them or you wont.
In the end of all things it comes down to whether you have caught the luck virus or not!
But that can be said for all things you either roll and hit or you roll and miss!
People are so fixated on Beam and stealth rolls!
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Ripple said:
Hmmm, it is pretty unlikely though unless you factor in crits, but that is a problem with crits itself and why I still like the idea of PL based crit saves (not wishing to reopen that discussion though!).
I would say for the most part that it's the crit table at fault. When you roll up on your beams you are going to increase the frequency of crits. If the source of the those crits is a triple damage mag gun on a Ka'Toc, that is likely to hurt a lot!
My only issue with beams, and I believe that this is a 2e-ism, is that the whole flat 4+ to hit rather devalues hull 6, but then again the abundance of AP and SAP weapons at the lower PLs does too.
Regards,
Dave
I think fluff is no good excuse for the beam rules, sorry.
That's the problem I have seen more then once and might lead to our club dropping the game as well as there are many other games out there that look to be better balanced then ACTA. And how it looks so far P&P won't change much on this :evil:
In the German ACTA forum it is already called the second Armageddon desaster as nobody notices any real improvement of the game in it.
Please don't get me wrong, I love to play ACTA, but it took 3 years to get the game running at the club and now it's crumbeling down because of such issues like Beam, FAP chart and small over large ships and no hope on the horizon that it will change. That fills me with bitterness
That's the problem I have seen more then once and might lead to our club dropping the game as well as there are many other games out there that look to be better balanced then ACTA. And how it looks so far P&P won't change much on this :evil:
In the German ACTA forum it is already called the second Armageddon desaster as nobody notices any real improvement of the game in it.
Please don't get me wrong, I love to play ACTA, but it took 3 years to get the game running at the club and now it's crumbeling down because of such issues like Beam, FAP chart and small over large ships and no hope on the horizon that it will change. That fills me with bitterness
