Why I love Conan (Conan vs 4th edition)

[afro-slav]

I just checked out Dnd 4.0 and it makes me love Conan all the more.
First let me state that I use Conan as a generic rpg game vs running "Conan"
per se.

I love that there are HUMANS!!!!! There are no Eldarin, Elves, Dragonkin, Halfings, Teifliengs, Dwarves, etc...

Magic is DANGEROUS

It is a LOW MAGIC world. It is brains and brawl not game breaking spells that rule the day.

Its seems that 4.0 DnD is a tabletop video game.

Afro-slav

 

[afro-slav]

I just saw the "why Conan" tread. Can you close or move this thread there
IF you think it is redundant?

Afro-slav

 

[p1fx]

i like that its just humans too, i like the magic point system and sacrafices etc but the spells are guff, there are only a few and lets be honest how often will the need to populate a zone with serpents really arise? are we not meant to allow magic users as characters just npcs? the book says magic items abound in hyboria, but not the magic sword and rod standard of d+d, fair enough as these could get silly, but skip to the list of items and its just crystal balls i mean come on skelos book didnt help much either. yet there are skills to make items so go figure.
and i most certainly do not like the way information is left scattered accross books from both editions. even tsr who really milked their fans reprinted old spells skills etc if they released a updated magic collection etc
also whats with the seemingly total eastern/islamic feel given to the whole of hyboria in the game? all the pics and maps of the towns i keep seeing all seem to have a eastern feel with , perhaps eastern european if slightly different. closest we get to the west is like greek and roman esq culture. so what is the far east just the same then is it?
whats with the picts too? im guessing howard never read much about proper picts then as the name pict is as close as we get to them, the ones in the game seem to be american indians.

 

[Ichabod]

I would say it's fairly safe to say that Conan is trying to capture a fantasy flavor where you don't have D&Desque magic-users. I'd actually say that it didn't go far enough as Gelid Bones is a cheesy 4th level, save or die, combat spell, Telekinesis and Greater TK are pure combat powers, unlike Conjuring which ironically gives real TK, and whatever else.

That someone might actually have to think about how to use their magical powers to solve problems or come up with a plan B that didn't rely on magic rather than having magic be a purely mechanical process like it is in most FRPGs is refreshing. And, contrary to some people's opinions, magic is still highly useful, though YMMV depending upon your GM, of course.

Information scattered across books is inconvenient, but charging money for reprinted material is not a fan favorite either.

I don't pay much attention to the art, so maybe it does all seem Eastern, but Hyboria is essentially Europe and it's easy enough to find Northern and Western European cultures if that's what you want to find. As for the Picts, as with most of Conan's world, stuff is jumbled and the names may be misleading.

 

[bradius]

I think the overabundance of Middle-Eastern type characters depicted in the book art is due to laziness. It is an easy way to make things seem 'exotic'.

 

[Malcadon]

I was just reading the new Game System License for 4e.

From the look of things, you cant just reproduce the ruleset in a non-wizards book like what was done for Conan and Lone Wolf, so any 3rd party books would only be add-ons to the core rulebooks. You can add to or note what rules to be omitted (as long as it dose not describe Chargen or level advancement), but you can't 'redefine' any of the core rules. The funny thing is, that when you reference anything from the core rulebooks, you cant even note the page number (this it do the the fact that there are going to multiple versions of the core books. So how many PHB do you really need?).

They impose a Quality and Content Standards clause that states: no excessively graphic violence or gore; sexual situations, sexual abuse, pornography, gratuitous nudity of human or humanoid forms, genitalia, or sexual activity; or existing real-world minorities, nationalities, social castes, religious groups or practices, political preferences, genders, lifestyle preferences, or people with disabilities, as a group inferior to any other group or in a way that promotes disrespect for those groups or practices, or that endorses those groups or practices over another. You know, family-friendly sh!t! So any mature settings for 4e is out of the question.

No one can publish a line of books that is for 3.x and 4e. So if Mongoose converts Conan or Lone Wolf to 4e, then they would have to discontinue all of the older books (they would be free to sell off their unsold copies), remove any electronic files of that edition, and can no linger support the previous edition.

So in all, a reference-only/rule supplement campaign book would be worthless for a rule-set that is vary incompatible for Conan. You would lose a lot with the Quality and Content Standards. And this new license, like the game it supports, total bullshit! Thankfully, it only covers 4e, and is not retroactive with older editions. THANK GOD! :roll:

 

[BigSteveUK]

I would be surprised if someone at Mongoose isn't looking in to moving Conan to 4e or Runequest. Even if it is just purely for research and testing purposes.

I have to admit that thought I don't like the thoughts of changing system, but I do think Conan would work very well under the RQ system.

Also as 4e is very figure based if Conan was ported to 4e and supported with a range of miniatures your telling me a few of us fools wouldn't be more than tempted!!

End of the day most successful RPG companies are a bit like Microsoft a new OS every 3-4 years, they need us to buy stuff, it’s the only way to survive!

 

[rabindranath72]

I have first given a try to 4e by buying the H1 adventure, before buying the core books. I never went the 3.x route, being literally disgusted with 3.x (only own the 3.0 core books from 2000), and 4e IS completely different. Much closer "in spirit" to the older versions of D&D than 3.x was; e.g., monsters and NPCs follow different (and way easier) rules than PCs. Combat is easier to handle (compare the insane Grapple rules of 3.x with 4e's simple hit roll approach)
FINALLY! These points alone sold me to 4e. These, and the fact that the micromanagement of skills points IS GONE, and skill lists are appropriately reduced. Also, no more "free for all" multiclassing. There is a neat feat system to "acquire" some abilities of other classes, but the result is only "dabbling" in another class features. Matches quite well the idea that fantasy is most of the times about archetypes. Also, to use ritual magic one need not be a full-fledged spellcaster (it requires training in a skill and the ritual caster feat). This, too, is quite nice, and practically eliminates the need to multiclass.

Actually, 4e might work quite well for a Conan game (fighters, warlords and rogues, namely). The warlock might be a nice fit for sorcerers; there are demonic pacts, fey pacts and star pacts (Cthulhu Mythos anyone?). There is even something resembling the Rule of Success (it has the same effects, in practice).
In 4e terms, characters would be limited to 10th level, which covers the Heroic tier. Characters start with more hit points than before, ensuring highest chances of survival at low levels, but then there is not an explosion in hit points as 3.x.
The impact of magic items on the game is strongly reduced, too. At this level range, you cannot expect a weapon with a bonus higher than +2.
Overall, characters are not expected to rely on healing magic anymore. This, too, fits the Conan genre quite well.

Overall, I would not be surprised if Mongoose decided to "migrate" Conan to 4e.

 

[rabindranath72]

Also as 4e is very figure based if Conan was ported to 4e and supported with a range of miniatures your telling me a few of us fools wouldn't be more than tempted!!

No more figure based than 3.x/Conan d20. At least in 4e you do not have to count diagonal squares! :wink:

 

[Clovenhoof]

Overall, I would not be surprised if Mongoose decided to "migrate" Conan to 4e.

I should be VERY surprised if the powers at Mongoose even tried it, because they might just as well pull a shovel over their own heads, shoot their own feet (both), and set their houses on fire. It's nothing short of impossible to create a Conanesque setting with the new license:

no excessively graphic violence or gore; sexual situations, sexual abuse, pornography, gratuitous nudity of human or humanoid forms, genitalia, or sexual activity; or existing real-world minorities, nationalities, social castes, religious groups or practices, political preferences, genders, lifestyle preferences, or people with disabilities, as a group inferior to any other group or in a way that promotes disrespect for those groups or practices, or that endorses those groups or practices over another.

Conan would breach almost all of those taboos. Especially the bits about violence, gore, sex, nudity and gender. If the 'goose should castrate Conan in a way to fit this license, it would become just one bland, politically correct, boring fairytale setting out of a myriad. Nobody would buy it.

And now I think even less of 4e than before.

 

[rabindranath72]

And now I think even less of 4e than before.

It should be quite apparent that the game has NOTHING to do with the politics behind it. Rules are one thing, politics another. In fact, 4e is doing quite well in my gut and visceral S&S setting. WotC will not come to my home and beat me for using the game for my ends.
Also, the above limitations should be taken with a grain of salt, since many of those topics are at least subject to interpretation. I do not see any genitals in the Conand d20 book, for example, nor it promotes racism within REAL groups. I bet if Mongoose wanted to do something with it, its lawyers would find a way to "squeeze" in things appropriate for Conan.

 

[Hervé]

Come on guys. The 4th ed rules aren't so bad, even if I don't like the choice of Classes and Races (Dragon Men, Half Demons and three Elvish races :x ).
The system has been greatly simplified, and that's a good point. The gameflow is much better now. As for the "politically correct" mood, I guess nobody was expecting something else. Remember that Wizards of the Coast belongs to Hasbro, one of the greatest toy companies of the world along with Mattel. Some people may find the "video game feel" unappropriate, but I guess it's a matter of taste. I won't play the game, but I find the rules are maybe better than the traditional D20 system.

 

[rabindranath72]

Come on guys. The 4th ed rules aren't so bad, even if I don't like the choice of Classes and Races (Dragon Men, Half Demons and three Elvish races :x ).
The system has been greatly simplified, and that's a good point. The gameflow is much better now. As for the "politically correct" mood, I guess nobody was expecting something else. Remember that Wizards of the Coast belongs to Hasbro, one of the greatest toy companies of the world along with Mattel. Some people may find the "video game feel" unappropriate, but I guess it's a matter of taste. I won't play the game, but I find the rules are maybe better than the traditional D20 system.

As a very oldschooler (OD&D, AD&D1e etc. that I STILL play), I found myself rather surprised to actually like 4e. The same did not happen with 3.x (well, 3.0 was quite passable IMO, at least restricted to the 3 core books).
Anyway, as soon as I have a good adaptation of Conan to 4e, you guys will be the first to know

 

[Clovenhoof]

t should be quite apparent that the game has NOTHING to do with the politics behind it.

Doch. From what I saw in the official sneak previews, the whole game seems to be more candyland and "politically correct". For instance, that all the races now only have ability bonuses and no penalties anymore. As if it would be too much to ask of a player to accept drawbacks and hindrances of any kind, even though every adult knows that any boon usually comes with a string attached, just like in real life.
We used to have a 4e thread here - seems to have been culled - where someone summed this up as the "everyone is special" attitude (which really made me grin). I think that's a bit infantile.

Or in other words, D&D4 isn't just a videogame, it's the Nintendo of RPGs.
(Judging from what I read so far about the game. I won't buy the books just to take a closer look, and there won't be a new SRD for all I know.)

 

[Krushnak]

I only have 2 words for 4e. EPIC FAIL.

 

[Malcadon]

I only have 2 words for 4e. EPIC FAIL.

My words exactly!

What ever the rules are good or not matters little, do to the fact that a 4e "Conan core rulebook" is not possible, and such a book would have "[see Players Handbook for details]", and "[see Dungeon Master Guide for details]" every other sentence. At least with 3.X Conan, you have only one large core book to reference, but a 4e Conan, you would to reference the Conan setting book, the Players Handbook, and the Dungeon Master Guide, with lots and lots of other little cross-book referencing. Its kinda like playing OD&D (with the 3 core booklets, the Chainmail rulebook, and Avalon Hill's Outdoor Survival need to play), but with bigger books.

I have read the 4e rules, and their is nothing worth getting that you cat just adjust the 3e rules (like Pathfinder), and avoid the messy legality of the Game System License.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

4e is a MMORPG for those who have no internet or experiencing a black-out. :twisted:

 

[seanbickford]

I like the new skill system that they stole from Star Wars saga. The fact that every character gets pretty good at everything once they achieve higher levels is very Conan in my opinion.

But yeah, DnD 4 is just WoW in pen and paper format. I plan on taking the good stuff and leaving the rest. Also, the art is turds.

 

[rabindranath72]

Oh well, my 4e S&S campaign must not be as fun as we imagine it to be :roll:

 

[rabindranath72]

I have read the 4e rules, and their is nothing worth getting that you cat just adjust the 3e rules (like Pathfinder), and avoid the messy legality of the Game System License.

So you bought the books and read them at least? Good to know! Tastes vary, and it is good. As long as one has an INFORMED opinion (as in: not dictated by hate, preconcepts, hearsay etc.), all is well.