Why are fighter mounted missile barbettes crippled?

[AnotherDilbert]

Why does missile barbette store fewer missiles on small craft? The barbettes are equally large and expensive as on ships, they should store equal number of ammo.

The same goes for torpedo barbette and missile racks on small craft.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

If they should, and if you are the referee, then problem solved.

 

[phavoc]

Ignoring Shawn's useless comment, how much are they off by? I have found putting a side by side comparison and calling out the errors seems to work better to get things fixed.

But, generally speaking, if costs and displacement are the same, then everything else should be the same. That's just common sense.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

HG, p28:
A missile barbette fires 5 missiles at a time, and holds enough missiles for 5 full salvos (a total of 25 missiles). Missile barbettes on Firmpoints hold eight missiles.

Everything else is identical, size, cost, etc.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

If they should, and if you are the referee, then problem solved.

Of course, but I'm reluctant to house rule something I do not understand the reason for. There is often a good reason...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I'd hardly call it a house rule. Unless your players care about that issue more than you do. But then you guys are playing something other than Traveller if stuff like that halts your game.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I'd hardly call it a house rule. Unless your players care about that issue more than you do. But then you guys are playing something other than Traveller if stuff like that halts your game.

There are many ways to play Traveller. If we have a few PCs messing around in a Scout, we will not notice it. If we play TCS it could be noticeable.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Well, as long as you guys keep in mind that Traveller is not a spaceship simulator.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

We have to agree to disagree.

Traveller is many things. The adventure modules are Traveller. TCS is Traveller. Pocket Empires is Traveller.
Traveller is a toolbox with many tools for different situations.

The way you play Traveller is the right way.
The way I play Traveller is the right way.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

At the very least I think that even the small craft version of the missile barbette should hold a number of missiles that are launch-able as full salvoes, so 10 missiles instead of 8. Or 25, since they mass and cost the same

 

[Nerhesi]

I believe this was the attempt at somehow sowing the firmpoint inequality. ( I can only assume at this point)

Since unlike direct-fire weapons, they dont have decreased range.. so how are they decreased? Because the understanding is that they're obviously "Smaller" than the real hardpoint equivalent.

 

[Chas]

Yep. I'm not entirely against it either. There should be some compromises in the system and as long as the weapons are working as the original versions that'll do. You can just assume that the extra weight lost by the ammo is in the ship structural supports making the firmpoint the equivalent of the full hardpoint in terms of what it can bear.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

But they are not smaller. If they were smaller it would be Great! for fighters.

 

[Chas]

But they are not smaller. If they were smaller it would be Great! for fighters.

Thou shalt not have thy cake and eat it.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

But they are not smaller. If they were smaller it would be Great! for fighters.

Thou shalt not have thy cake and eat it.

It feels like I have neither the cake nor have I eaten it...
Jag har sålt smöret och tappat pengarna.

 

[phavoc]

But they are not smaller. If they were smaller it would be Great! for fighters.

Thou shalt not have thy cake and eat it.

It feels like I have neither the cake nor have I eaten it...
Jag har sålt smöret och tappat pengarna.

Seems like a clear rules miss to me. On the one hand it's lazy game design to use the same starship weapons for small craft, but then try to cripple them somehow while keeping other aspects the same.

IF the intent is to make fighter weaponry less potent and thus require fighters to close with an enemy, that is fine. Simply make small craft weapons a subset of the standard ones. So you may have a pulse laser that does 1D of damage from a starship and costs Cr100. The fighter version does 1D, but it's range is halved, or even quartered, and it's cost could be the same, or less (or even greater... trying to shoe-horn in the same thing onto a smaller platform).

But it seems that we are treating small craft the SAME as spaceships. And if you are doing that, then it makes no sense to require the same tonnage, and same costs, and same everything... but then nerf it for no reason. It's not the same as trying to make a laser do the same damage but occupy a smaller footprint. This missile barbette acts the same as the starship one, but is heavily nerfed, and yet has the same overall characteristics. That's just bad design.

And no referee should have to try and fix that.

 

[Nerhesi]

They are technically smaller as you are able to fit one "missile rack" for example on a firmpoint. A firmpoint is every 35 tons not 100. So you're fitting a weapon in 1/3rd the normal allowable space.

So therefore it is a "smaller thing". That means less range for direct fire weapons.. and I guess, less "missiles stored" for a missile/torp weapon.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A 5t barbette is 5t. If you are telling me that a 5 dT barbette is smaller than an identical 5 dT barbette on a ship, I will question your logic.
If you are telling me that this is the way it is, and will remain that way, I will accept that and shut up.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Perhaps small craft barbettes should require fewer dtons? either that or we'll have to assume more of the barbette goes to mounting and bracing than when installing them on proper ships. After all, firm points can be upgraded to turrets, that (I assume) displace one dton, but they can only mount a single weapon, no double or triple turrets are possible. The single weapon mounted within the small craft turret also has shorter range than a "full weapon". This means regular turrets on small craft are inferior* to proper turrets, so why not barbettes too?

*inferior is a harsh word, perhaps they are smaller and also need to dedicate more volume to bracing and mounting on the smaller platform compared to a proper starship hull.

That said, they should hold at least ten missiles, for two full volleys.

And Dilbert, håll i pengarna eller sluta sälja smör

 

[phavoc]

They are technically smaller as you are able to fit one "missile rack" for example on a firmpoint. A firmpoint is every 35 tons not 100. So you're fitting a weapon in 1/3rd the normal allowable space.

So therefore it is a "smaller thing". That means less range for direct fire weapons.. and I guess, less "missiles stored" for a missile/torp weapon.

But that's not the issue here. Obviously small craft can't do the one per 100 Dtons, since by definition they would no longer be small craft. The 35 Dton is simply the mechanism by which they limit the number of weapons able to be placed on the smallcraft.

A 5t barbette is 5t. If you are telling me that a 5 dT barbette is smaller than an identical 5 dT barbette on a ship, I will question your logic.
If you are telling me that this is the way it is, and will remain that way, I will accept that and shut up.

Right, that's the same logic I would be using. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck regardless of size, then a duck is the equivalent of a goose....? No, it should be one is a duck and one is a goose. But as laid out the rules call both of them ducks but treat them differently. And therein lies the problem as pointed out.

And where I you, I'd still keep quacking (to keep the fowl analogy going). This seems like a clear miss as explained. IF the intent is to nerf the fighter version, fine, but please clean up the descriptions and fix it so it doesn't leave you scratching your head in confusion.