Who do the ISA fear?
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David Anla Shok'
Mongoose
To answer the original question, the ISA fears no one 
Locutus9956
Mongoose
A very good way to deal with whitestars (in first edition anyway) is to gank them with fighters. They only have forward firing weapons and no matter how maneuverable whitestars are, fighters are more so, ISA despite having the best fighters in the galaxy dont have ALOT of them. So might be worth chucking in a carrier load of Thoruns. In 2nd Ed apparently Dilgar have even MORE fighters so you might be able to really go to town on them there (and also lots more mid range missiles to soften them up on the approach (although with whitestars the approach tends to be 'I stop just outside missile range, then next turn all power to engines and oh look im behind you....)
As for whitestars themselve, the 2nd AD of Lasers frankly I always felt they were crying out for, ever since Armageddon I couldnt help feeling the whitestar had lost its teeth, the beam was just too erratic to rely on and the pulsars were just not as potent as they should have been. I abosolutely agreed with the downgrade to the dodge (it was disgusting before!) but personally I think the weapons were fine in SFoS. This latest revision puts the slant a bit more towards the 'big green beam of doom' which is imho a good thing. I would have liked it to be boresight though, it's not like the ISA are lacking in initiative sinks finally with the addition of the bluestar and the nolotar and all that lot.... but you cant have it all I suppose
As for whitestars themselve, the 2nd AD of Lasers frankly I always felt they were crying out for, ever since Armageddon I couldnt help feeling the whitestar had lost its teeth, the beam was just too erratic to rely on and the pulsars were just not as potent as they should have been. I abosolutely agreed with the downgrade to the dodge (it was disgusting before!) but personally I think the weapons were fine in SFoS. This latest revision puts the slant a bit more towards the 'big green beam of doom' which is imho a good thing. I would have liked it to be boresight though, it's not like the ISA are lacking in initiative sinks finally with the addition of the bluestar and the nolotar and all that lot.... but you cant have it all I suppose
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
David said:To answer the original question, the ISA fears no one
Well, spiders...
lastbesthope
Mongoose
MustEatBrains said:David said:To answer the original question, the ISA fears no one
Well, spiders...
[Dog Soldiers]
... and women....
[/Dog Soldiers]
LBH
(Hoping someone else recognises the reference and completes it)
First, going from one AD to two is not a big upgrade?! Doubling the output of your main weapon is not impressive, now I see where the issue is in the design process. No understanding of scale at all.
What we saw in the playtest pack was scary enough as the addition of agile ment you could not effectively get in a whitestars maneuver shadow at all, and properly flown whitestars almost never get shot at after the first turn. Well at least not shot at with any major guns.
With the advent of the super-vree, the gaim, and the new heavier secondaries on many ships maybe this fades a bit as there are a greater number of heavy weapons that can shoot into side/rear arcs...but still, I can't see how you can say the whitestar fleet would have been hamstrung by being bore sighted, especially given how many of you same folks are saying the drazi aren't hampered by it.
Ripple
What we saw in the playtest pack was scary enough as the addition of agile ment you could not effectively get in a whitestars maneuver shadow at all, and properly flown whitestars almost never get shot at after the first turn. Well at least not shot at with any major guns.
With the advent of the super-vree, the gaim, and the new heavier secondaries on many ships maybe this fades a bit as there are a greater number of heavy weapons that can shoot into side/rear arcs...but still, I can't see how you can say the whitestar fleet would have been hamstrung by being bore sighted, especially given how many of you same folks are saying the drazi aren't hampered by it.
Ripple
Of course, Boresight would have reduced their effectiveness somewhat but probably in proportion to the increase to 2AD.Ripple said:
The thing that seems to be forgotten by those claiming the White Star "needed" 2AD so that it normally did at least one hit, always seem to forget that the odds of doing 3,4 or even more hits are massively increased (by many 100s of percent). That's why averages are important even if variance plays a role in a decision. There are other mitigating factors such as the loss of traits from criticals and CAF not affecting Beams now but fundamentally the Armageddon White Star was balanced (even if it took a good general to get the most out of it) and with the change of rules, the trick was to maintain that balance. I think we're close but it's hard to say without proper "heat of battle" playtesting as there was always great debate on where the White Star's balance lay.
Not disagreeing that there were some mitigating factors.
The loss of CAF on the beam is certainly an issue, and the loss of traits from criticals is also an issue for the Whitestar and it's cousins. But it given its ability to repair criticals and manage it's threat profile with maneuver, this is still a very hardy ship. The addition of agile is nothing to sneeze at, even on a ship as maneuverable as the old whitestar, and while the crit table changes are challenging to it, it does have a precise beam, meaning it hands out those new challenges to its opponents fairly easily as well.
I would have been happier to see the ship get more dice on the secondaries if it was keeping its fore arc, much like the drazi got. AD added to the secondaries are self restricting, the new beam mechanic is wildly unpredicatable and adding AD just adds to the swing. Having to work for it even the tiny bit an agile ship with two 90s would have, might have helped keep this in line...particularly once the ship had been crippled.
Doesn't matter...done is done...and as I've said before....bigger better faster more...it's what folks wanted apparently.
Ripple
The loss of CAF on the beam is certainly an issue, and the loss of traits from criticals is also an issue for the Whitestar and it's cousins. But it given its ability to repair criticals and manage it's threat profile with maneuver, this is still a very hardy ship. The addition of agile is nothing to sneeze at, even on a ship as maneuverable as the old whitestar, and while the crit table changes are challenging to it, it does have a precise beam, meaning it hands out those new challenges to its opponents fairly easily as well.
I would have been happier to see the ship get more dice on the secondaries if it was keeping its fore arc, much like the drazi got. AD added to the secondaries are self restricting, the new beam mechanic is wildly unpredicatable and adding AD just adds to the swing. Having to work for it even the tiny bit an agile ship with two 90s would have, might have helped keep this in line...particularly once the ship had been crippled.
Doesn't matter...done is done...and as I've said before....bigger better faster more...it's what folks wanted apparently.
Ripple
David Anla Shok'
Mongoose
We are viewing the White Star as a stand alone ship. If you look at it as part of a squadron it takes on a whole look. While one or two beam dice are frequently ineffective, six or even twelve dice becomes exceedingly dangerous If you look at WSs in a squadron as a ship, it will have advantages that make it worthwhile. I usually run White Stars in three ship squadrons, though in larger games I've had them in six ship squadrons. Very scary ;>
If you look at WSs in a squadron as a ship, it will have advantages that make it worthwhile. I usually run White Stars in three ship squadrons, though in larger games I've had them in six ship squadrons. Very scary ;>I have a similar build for my Drakh, mostly to counter those white stars
and that was a squadran of three raiders, 2 heavy and 1 light.
Whilst I await 2e with baited breath, I can say that this was effective for two main reasons, the first is that I will always have more raiders than then white stars (I Favour the swarm technique, but that is another discussion for another time). The AF trait of the light raiders beam would hit the white star where the heavy raider beam would hurt the raider (when it hit).
But I understand that the light raider has lost this trait, but I can't say that I'm sorry because these little wolfpacks can take on most ships, with good manoeuvring and the new beam rules.
Not sure how the precise trait effects fighters (and more importantly, dodge) but I will find out when my books arrive.
and that was a squadran of three raiders, 2 heavy and 1 light.
Whilst I await 2e with baited breath, I can say that this was effective for two main reasons, the first is that I will always have more raiders than then white stars (I Favour the swarm technique, but that is another discussion for another time). The AF trait of the light raiders beam would hit the white star where the heavy raider beam would hurt the raider (when it hit).
But I understand that the light raider has lost this trait, but I can't say that I'm sorry because these little wolfpacks can take on most ships, with good manoeuvring and the new beam rules.
Not sure how the precise trait effects fighters (and more importantly, dodge) but I will find out when my books arrive.
David Anla Shok'
Mongoose
Da Boss said:Light raider beam still ignores dodge scores (inlcu White Stars)
So, the light raiders are the first to go then...
Dizzy Vree
Mongoose
gaim do well against isa, DD e-mine spam, and suicide fighters beat their low anti-fighter
Dizzy Vree
Mongoose
oops, oh well, the e-mine spam can still do a fair chunk of damage, the klikitaks or whatever arent always infront lol
David Anla Shok'
Mongoose
katadder said:
Swarming White Stars is less possible where they are in squadrons.... spread out to avoid the e-mine cheese bombs
. Also, if threatened by mass fighters one should go for the White Star with Nial fighter.Regards,
Arch Lector Petrovski
Mongoose
And if you get battered, pull out for a while and let the self-repair do its magic.
