White Star, WS Enforcer, WS Gunship

[Hindsight]

Was it intentional to make the White Star Enforcers guns 12 and 10 inch range? Will the White Star Gunship be modified as well?

May lead to a rise in popularity of the Gunship if you can still snipe with it, but given that two raids are usually better than a battle choice, does that make up for the chance of being horribly crit?

Holy crap, is it still an ugly model? =)

 

[l33tpenguin]

Nah, all guns have been removed from the WSG

Instead it will be armed with sporks

 

[Triggy]

I didn't notice any change or request for change on the Gunship - I'll have to ask Matt on the reasoning why.

 

[Kosh127]

thats because the WS don't really need that massive change they recieved. Its just like this company. to take away when people cry that they don't have it they can't do that. Its sad that people don't want to work to defeat the ISA. Just have MGP cut them down so its an easy win. Makes sence.

 

[Triggy]

thats because the WS don't really need that massive change they recieved. Its just like this company. to take away when people cry that they don't have it they can't do that. Its sad that people don't want to work to defeat the ISA. Just have MGP cut them down so its an easy win. Makes sence.

If what you are saying was true then your sarcasm would make sense. As it is, not only do a sizeable majority believe this is the right sort of change but many thought the White Star was overpowered right from when 2nd ed. was releases (this includes me).

It's not that people don't want to work to defeat the ISA, people want a fair matchup in the first place!

 

[Foxmeister]

Its sad that people don't want to work to defeat the ISA.

You are levelling a criticism here that people don't want to work to defeat the ISA. This criticism can equally well be turned around to say that anyone who doesn't approve of this change doesn't want to work to defeat their opponents!

The current incarnation simply begs to be sent out of the rear/flank arcs of ships to snipe where there is absolutely no possibility of return fire. That would be fine for a "made for the game" ship, but this is the most iconic ship in the B5 universe and therefore the game has a duty to make it behave as it does on screen.

This "fix" at least takes away the option to sit and snipe for a wide variety of ISA opponents (though not all I should add! ), and in doing so puts the ship back into the firing line where it clearly belongs according to *all* of the on screen evidence.

Regard,

Dave

 

[Kosh127]

If you want to say that this is because its because of show videos than most of everything should be changed in the game.

 

[SylvrDragon]

I had to admit that I really like the "Knife Fight" version of the White Star. That is the one with a 10" INL. Grants much more of the flavor given in the show. Not just in that they weren't tailgaters that hid from enemy guns, but also that they were more like over sized fighters and they acted as such by swooping in close to unleash devastating attacks, only to fly out of range before enemies could bring main guns to bear. The new White Star really has nice flavor. So much that I've actually been considering switching to ISA for our groups' upcoming campaign. I played them a few times before, but I found them to not have the feel I thought they should and, of course, I found them to be overpowered. I think the 10" INL is just what they needed for some balance and flavor.

I have to admit, I'm still at a bit of a loss for the White Star Fighter. Excellent fighter, but it's numbers are so small that I fear AF/AAF will blow them away before they can do anything. : / I'll just have to see if some clever maneuvering can make them useful.

 

[Juzza]

thats casue the old gunship has not been in for the new upgrade. After all the new and improved efficient neutron laser is the way of the future.

if its so much more efficient why not give it an extra AD

 

[Foxmeister]

If you want to say that this is because its because of show videos than most of everything should be changed in the game.

Really? How do you work that out then when most of the ships were never in the show and therefore there is no on screen "canon" to actually adhere to? That isn't much of an argument I'm afraid, but I'm of the opinion that where there is clear on screen evidence, ACTA should attempt to model it.

The simple facts of the matter are that the WS in its current incarnation promotes a style of game play that is completely at odds with what is shown on screen, and that many fleets have no effective counter for. The correct fix is to make the WS behave as it does on screen and this achieves that goal to some extent.

Regards,

Dave

 

[H]

thats because the WS don't really need that massive change they recieved. Its just like this company. to take away when people cry that they don't have it they can't do that. Its sad that people don't want to work to defeat the ISA. Just have MGP cut them down so its an easy win. Makes sence.

well while you are being arsey, perhaps you need to learn to play without being cheesy eh? then the changes wouldn't matter.

 

[mollari_uk]

For me the WS GS has been largly ignored during play (perhaps until the enforcer has appeared) and the performance of this ship is underated. When P&P 1.0 came out our ISA player ignored the WS and picked Gunships instead. I have to say after facing 3 of them in a squadron they are just over sized WS. The stats are almost exactly double and so in large scale games they are just as overpowered.

IMO they should have the same nerf as the Enforcer/WS.

 

[Da Boss]

Don't really agree on that I actually think the Liati is a better ship and the Gunship is a good but not overpowered choice. The Minbari battle choices are also very strong - Earth is Ok and the Narn - least said the better.

Three Gunships are probably no more ffective than a squadron of three Liaitis or three Tinashis - if you reduce that ship the others need to come down.

What fleet were you playing ?

10" max range for a battle level ship is very poor..............

 

[H]

the Gunship is underated, I have watched them scythe through a drakh fleet without blinking, even the isa player was impressed and he only took one as he ran out of WS models!

10" for it would be harsh, yes, it can still "snipe" like the WS could if it needs to, but it's above the optimum level ie raid, so you pay for that by loosing some init sinking, some of your multiple ship redundancy etc.

 

[mollari_uk]

I fought the 3 gunships with the minbari (including a Neroon) and one took fire from almost everything on the table and it was barely scratched. Meanwhile they proceeded to carve throught the minbari like butter.

Same problem as the WS. Sit on CBD and blast away.

The gunship is far more manoverable and survivable than most battle ships. It's still got dodge 4+!! I don't see how people can complain about the WS and not the gunship, it's double the stats for double the cost!?!

 

[Jim?]

Personally, I think the Liati could do with a slight tweak, anyway... it's always been really hard to fight against multiple Liatis with the ISA (which is kind of the point, I suppose) but I really can't see a way to do that with the tweaked Whitestar, to be honest (and I think the change is a good one, against just about every other fleet!)

Tha accurate, turreted Ion Cannon is the problem the ISA really can't cope with... if it were twin linked without being accurate, I think the match up would be extremely close. I fly both Centauri and ISA fleets, so I don't think I'm that biased about this point, I love the Liati, just think it may kick slightly too much Whitestar butt, now!

 

[H]

because my ISA opponent only has one model ;-)

and a Neroon? what were you thinking!!!

 

[Da Boss]

I fought the 3 gunships with the minbari (including a Neroon) and one took fire from almost everything on the table and it was barely scratched. Meanwhile they proceeded to carve throught the minbari like butter.

Same problem as the WS. Sit on CBD and blast away.

The gunship is far more manoverable and survivable than most battle ships. It's still got dodge 4+!! I don't see how people can complain about the WS and not the gunship, it's double the stats for double the cost!?!

Minbari tend to do exactly the same in my experience - CBD relying on their stealth and superior range - your secondary batteries having the same range as many peoples pirmaries. I have played / watched a number of game where the Minbari are just not seen and so completely anhiliate the enemy.

White Star Gunship has the same dodge as the Liati (one of my fav ships) I guess it was a large battle but even so Neroon is a very big target - did he take a Victory to balance the battle? If not then try a squadron on Tinashis and see how much damage they can dish out in return.

How much of the carving up was due to the present very unpredictible beam system and high miss chance / roll up chance?

I also guess it was one of those battles where your stealth was non existant as opposed to a battle where the stealth rolls always fail on a 1 or 2.

Stealth and dodge are massively powerful defences - when they work..........often as not they fail completely and the ship dies.

 

[mollari_uk]

It was a while ago so I don't remember the specifics. The Neroon actually was really good and prevented the ISa from flanking round. They tried to stay in 1 arc of the minbari to prevent the minbari multiarc advantage.

It could be the one game that didn't work out so well and the results are skewed.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Personally, I think the Liati could do with a slight tweak, anyway... it's always been really hard to fight against multiple Liatis with the ISA (which is kind of the point, I suppose) but I really can't see a way to do that with the tweaked Whitestar, to be honest (and I think the change is a good one, against just about every other fleet!)

Tha accurate, turreted Ion Cannon is the problem the ISA really can't cope with... if it were twin linked without being accurate, I think the match up would be extremely close. I fly both Centauri and ISA fleets, so I don't think I'm that biased about this point, I love the Liati, just think it may kick slightly too much Whitestar butt, now!

That is the point, isn't it? The Liati is a specialist White Star killer. I don't understand why people swear by them for general duties, they're just going to get slaughtered. Damage appropriate to a raid ship, weapons optimised to kill White Stars and basically no other use. Sure it has a DD beam, but Centauri and a few others aside, who doesn't have plenty? Centauri already have the DD beam on the Morgrath, so it's no huge deal.