White Star, WS Enforcer, WS Gunship

[Da Boss]

We have CBD with No DC, makes you stop & think about if it really worth it ( plus with our redundancy, we have it that you can't use it either)

Would not change anything for me - I use it alot as ships close - espcially if they are out of range/ arc of their weapons or are reloading one system. DC is not normally something that matters at this point.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

When do we ever see White Stars hanging back to shoot at long range? Never. They should be drawn into optimum range for short-range fleets, they still have all their defences, sitting out of range is totally out of character for the White Star fleet.

To be frank I support Hiff's idea on the allies, let's see some limits on a mechanic that allows them to bypass most of their weaknesses. People cry about the League being able to do that, why should the ISA get to?

Freak crit on the Primus skewed your result a bit, Da Boss, but I think this looks good. White Stars always fly into the teeth of the enemy guns on screen, and you see plenty get hit and knocked out.

 

[Greg Smith]

But if the issue is the SA and not the ship, then any fixes you attempt will simply worsen matters.

The previous fix reduced the power of the Neutron Laser if the WS was on CBD (or fired its pulsars). This was universally unpopular.

 

[Da Boss]

maybe maybe - need some more test results............

not against WS's being hammered but without that freak crit it would have been more on sided and I might have only lost a Haven - although true the WS's do rely on getting the big crits with their TD beams.............so I think that was not a bad thing.

What we don't want is ISA players not wanting to play the Centauri and others as it is too one sided?

 

[mollari_uk]

What we don't want is ISA players not wanting to play the Centauri and others as it is too one sided?

Is it just the ISA vs Centauri though? At the moment most of my group hate playing the ISA with any fleet. I know flipping this isn't the solution but if the Centauri suddenly become the ISA nemisis then that wouldn't be so bad. If it's everyone though, it would be.

 

[Da Boss]

What we don't want is ISA players not wanting to play the Centauri and others as it is too one sided?

Is it just the ISA vs Centauri though? At the moment most of my group hate playing the ISA with any fleet. I know flipping this isn't the solution but if the Centauri suddenly become the ISA nemisis then that wouldn't be so bad. If it's everyone though, it would be.

tbh I have always thought the Centauri could hold their own aginst the ISA - some of the other fleets not so much.

short answer - I don't know - I outlined several other fleets I thought may be problem - Gaim and Pak spring to mind - (emine like ability at good range and emine and fighters respectively)

Need people to test them really.................

 

[Clanger]

With the reduced range of the WS beam. Shouldn't the Liatia have a range reduction as well, as it was designed to counter WS after all.

It would seem wrong to decrease the range of the WS and not the Centauri WS Killer.

 

[Da Boss]

If the Gunship goes down, def yes - thats its equivalent not the WS.

I don't agree with either ship (Gunship or Liati) going down - 10" range main guns on a battle level ship is not IMHO a good idea...............

 

[mollari_uk]

All short ranged fleets suffer against long range fleets in the initial turns but the WS can get in range very quickly. I think the fighter/breaching pod fleets will probably benefit the most as the WS will struggle to stay out of the way now.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Which encourages the ISA to use fighters of their own to screen their ships - like everyone else has to.

Unless facing Narn or Gaim, obviously. Then it's a waste of time.

 

[Da Boss]

of the fleets they will face my armchair view (only played one game with the new WS)

The Great Powers

Minbari - minor benefit - maybe an extra turn of firing before return fire
Centauri - huge benefit - WS range is shorter than normal guns and close enough to the the ships to allow fighters to easily mob them
Earth - benefit - esp later years with longer range guns and nastier fighters - and lots of them
Narn - minor benefit - may be able to get a few more shots off, any fighters brought along should be able to mob.
Dilgar - benefit - as above

Gaim - huge benefit - as Centauri but add in the breeching pods
Pak - nicely in range of plasma mine weapons
Vree - usually shorter range than most Vree ships and again should allow even more fighter swarming than before
:?:
I think the question is it too much? or not?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Like I said, White Stars don't hang back, they drive in, guns blazing and brave the enemy fire to do the job. They're well defended, all those ion cannons they're now in range of may well miss anyway, and the shots that do hit are robbed of their double damage benefit.

Same goes for the Vree, their DD guns don't get the benefit, and Dilgar too, those bolters lose out vs White Stars.

I don't think it's too much and I'll gladly playtest it with the dastardly Triggy when I get chance.

 

[Da Boss]

Look forward to hearing about it

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Yeah, another tale of woe and defeat at Triggy's hands makes for great reading, eh?

 

[Da Boss]

nah - give you a chance to try out the Liati and take those White Stars out of our sky............

honestly I think you will find the new WS a much easier beast to handle............

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I've never played Trig with an ISA fleet. Need to get that Liait built if I want to use it to hunt me some White Stars...

 

[Methos5000]

of the fleets they will face my armchair view (only played one game with the new WS)

The Great Powers
Vree - usually shorter range than most Vree ships and again should allow even more fighter swarming than before
:?:
I think the question is it too much? or not?

With the shortest range Non-fighter Vree Weapon at 10" and the longest range WS weapon at 10" the WS cannot under normal circumstances (Campaign refit will allow long range at reduced firepower) fire at a Vree ship without full retribution from the Vree vessel. At raid and above that is an awful lot of firepower. Add in the currently busted SA the Vree have its probably not gonna be pretty for the ISA. Im gonna try to playtest some games against Vree to see how bad it can potentially be.

 

[lastbesthope]

Da Boss and I played tonight, and the White Stars got absolutely hammered.

Oh dear, the two of you are both way better with White Stars than I am.

LBH

 

[Da Boss]

be afraid - you'll have to start learning how to use them in a completely different way :shock: :wink:

course I am ashamed to say Gregs Narn did better against my EA - I have learned that apparently the the EA fleet does not work in the same way as my Centauri fleet :lol:

 

[lastbesthope]

be afraid - you'll have to start learning how to use them in a completely different way :shock: :wink:

Shouldn't be too hard, I've never learned how to use them properly anyway :lol:

If the method verges to more EA or Minbari methods I might actually do better.

LBH