Which attribute is least useful in the d20 Conan game?

[kintire]

Wisdom? ...

My scholar instincts and crying out in agony.

True, but the scholar is only one class.

Of course, Wisdom is the attribute modfier for perception skills, which have a strong claim to being the most important.

 

[Ichabod]

I'm surprised that people find Will Saves to be so unimportant. I suppose that has something to do with how many terror checks we have in our campaign, but I would think less monsters would lead to more sorcerers, balancing things out to a degree.

And, yes, the cheese that is Code of Honor exists.

But, typically, we find:

a. Fail terror check, out of most to all of fight, good for your personal survival, potential for killing rest of party, though since our combat beatstick has strong Will Saves, party marches on.

b. Fail any other Will Save, probably incapacitated (much worse than running away as now you need the party to survive) or would die or would kill entire party if not for numerous rerolls to avoid failing the save.

Sure, can blow FPs on terror, but um, like, how many FPs youze gotz? How many more would you have if you didn't need to spend them on such things?

Put another way, I'd much rather fail either a Reflex or Fortitude Save. Depending upon which rules you are using, massive damage failure is mitigated to some degree by Diehard.

 

[The King]

A failed terror check means you might survive any encounter while the other PCs have to fight the critter.

Serioulsy I can't understand why perceptions skills are linked to Wisdom.

 

[Supplement Four]

Let me try to clear this up for you.
Average does not mean total divided by two.

And, let me clear it up for you in kind.

"Average" means a lot of things. One definition is the total divided by two. "Average" most often refers to the arithmetic mean, but the term is actually ambiguous and may be used to also refer to the mode, median, or midrange.

 

[rabindranath72]

Let me try to clear this up for you.
Average does not mean total divided by two.

And, let me clear it up for you in kind.

"Average" means a lot of things. One definition is the total divided by two. "Average" most often refers to the arithmetic mean, but the term is actually ambiguous and may be used to also refer to the mode, median, or midrange.

You are right about the definition, but your calculation is wrong nonetheless. The mean and the median for a uniform distribution are the same. And the mode does not exist.

 

[LilithsThrall]

Let me try to clear this up for you.
Average does not mean total divided by two.

And, let me clear it up for you in kind.

"Average" means a lot of things. One definition is the total divided by two. "Average" most often refers to the arithmetic mean, but the term is actually ambiguous and may be used to also refer to the mode, median, or midrange.

No, really, you're wrong. The average age of people entering high school as freshmen isn't 8. The average number of eggs in a carton of a dozen eggs isn't 6. The average number of players on a baseball team who are allowed to play at any one time isn't 4 1/2. The average number of people in a monogamous marriage isn't 1.

 

[Supplement Four]

No, really, you're wrong.

I'm wrong? That's why this college math class supports what I said, because I'm so wrong. http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/math/webtexts/stat03.htm

 

[LilithsThrall]

No, really, you're wrong.

I'm wrong? That's why this college math class supports what I said, because I'm so wrong. http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/math/webtexts/stat03.htm

Yes, you're wrong. The average of 1d8 is -not- 4.
It is, as I said and as the source you offered says, for uniform distributions, (the min + the max)/the sample size

And there is a reason for this which another poster tried to explain to you having to do with the central limit theorem (though, being a Bayesian, I don't really like his explanation, but that's an issue way over your head).

 

[Supplement Four]

Yes, you're wrong. The average of 1d8 is -not- 4.

I showed how it could be 4 or 4.5 in my original post. You chose to focus on the "4" result.

...but that's an issue way over your head).

You're a little bit of a arse, aren't you? Just want to get those jibes in, huh?

Make you feel better, does it?

OK. Plop! Your words are no longer worth reading. Congrats! You've made the "ignore" list! :shock:

 

[Spectator]

The only time 4 would be the average would be if it were a 9 sided dice.
The average is not 4 because there is "0" on the 8 sided dice.
The min is "1," the max is "8."
If the average were "4" then it is statistically lopsided in favor of the minimum, by your logic, the average could also be "5" since that is occurring at the same stistical relation as 4.
Since the both occur at the same staticial frequency, they themselves must be averaged which would give 4.5. But never 4. only on a 0 to 8 (9sided dice) would that occur.

Snap.

 

[Supplement Four]

The only time 4 would be the average would be if it were a 9 sided dice.

What you guys aren't understanding is that there is no 4.5 result on an 8 sided die. The answer has to be either 4 or 5.

As I said earlier (and people seem to ignore that part), the term "average" has many different meanings.

I can calculate 4.5 as the statistical average (and did so above) just like the rest of you.

But, just like an average family can said to include 2.2 children, there is no real ".2" child.

Sheesh, let's drop it already. We're all talking about the same thing.

 

[kintire]

The point that people are making is that Ichabod's calculations of average damage with a Bardiche that you corrected are actually accurate.

 

[Supplement Four]

The point that people are making is that Ichabod's calculations of average damage with a Bardiche that you corrected are actually accurate.

And, in my very next post after the first correction of my correction, I addressed the 4.5 average he was using.

But, that didn't stop two or three people from continuing to correct it "some more".

 

[rabindranath72]

I showed how it could be 4 or 4.5 in my original post. You chose to focus on the "4" result.

What you guys aren't understanding is that there is no 4.5 result on an 8 sided die. The answer has to be either 4 or 5.

1) when we speak about the sum of two dice, the sum does not contain any ".5". You get a definite distribution, whose theoretical properties can be assessed and any location estimates can be calculated. For the case above, d8+d10, the mean is 10 and the median is 10. No arguing about this. And the result is UNIQUE.
2) one thing is to speak about generic "averages" for generic sets of data, in which case we have "empirical estimates". Another is to have theoretical calculations, as can result from our topic: rolling a single die, rolling more dice and summing them. In these cases, you can actually calculate the exact "averages". And these have nothing to do with your suggestion of "reality" for the existence of some values.
Actually, ANY "average" for a one sided die roll is probabilistically meaningless, since all values have the same exact probability. So your argument here is flawed.

The link you posted does not apply here, since it deals with empirical data sets, not theoretical estimates, the case here. Also, your quotes above show that you did not read carefully your own link: there cannot be more than one mean or median. So, what do you choose? 4.5 or 4?

So, the final answer which need no more arguing:
1) for one die, the mean and median are the same, and they have not any probabilistic "meaning" (the probability of their outcome is 0). The mode is nonexistent.
2) when you sum two dice of any size, the mean and median DO exist. The distribution is symmetric, and they are EQUAL. You cannot "choose". And these values also have probabilistic "meaning", i.e. they are "more probable".

So, you are wrong, and arguing about it is pretty useless (oh, and btw, I am a statistician by profession).

If you want to put me on your ignore list, you are welcome.

 

[Malcadon]

The average of 1d6 is 3 and 4 (thus a 3.5). Technically all the results are average, seeing how all six result have the same odds (16.7% each).

The average of 2d6 is 7.

The average of 3d6 is 10 and 11 (thus a 10.5).

The average of 4d6 is 14.

The average 45 cal./9mm has less then 1% chance of penetrate S4's thick skull.

The average 152mm artillery shell has a 5% chance of doing so. LOL

 

[The King]

I am surprised that Charisme received so many votes. I deem it essential to lead followers or impress other when you don't wont to be involved in a fight.

 

[Garet]

For my personal tastes it either Wisdom or Charisma, according to what kind of character i'm trying to roll up. I usually play a fighter type.

 

[Supplement Four]

I am surprised that Charisme received so many votes.

I'm not. All stats are useful for some specific things, but players have a limited resource when allocating throws to attributes. The question is which stat is likeliest to received the lowest throw.

CHA definitely contributes to the game, but it typically doesn't have as much impact as most of the other stats.

We need more voters, but so far, I'm not surprised the WIS is in second place.