Where are the Scenarios?

[CarlQ]

Jam tomorrow?
I'd much rather have jam today.

Jam takes time to make. If you rush it, it's just fruit pulp.

:lol:

Or even some form of dark toffee with horrible black bits round the edge...

Ah, I see you've had the same experience I have, Halfbat. Gruesome stuff: solid as a rock unless sucked for an hour, then it turns into superglue. Couldn't even give the stuff away to the bratty kids down our street (although it was fun trying... :twisted: )

Carl Q.

 

[Loz]

Loz is right that you can't rush your Jam Making - On the other hand, Mongoose knew they were going to be baking the bread over a year ago, so they should have planned ahead better to get the jam ready in time to accompany it...

I know there is a school of thought that Adventures are not as important or as profitable to a publisher as rulebooks, setting books and "Splat" books, but as this thread shows, there are people who, for a variety of reasons do like/want/need them - whether to mine for ideas, adapt for their own setting, or run exactly as written, because they don't have the time/skill/experience to write their own, or because it is easier to assimilate setting details that you encounter "in play" than from reading pages of descriptive prose in a source book. (The Zistorite factions or God Learner schools are great, but I feel I would grok the differences better from a scenario where the players find themselves caught between two of them and having to decide which way to jump than reading hte descriptions of all of them in one sitting...

I think you raise some good points. Thing is, scenarios for public consumption are quite difficult to write, even short ones, because they need tobe structured quite differently from settings and rules supplements. If the scenario relies on completed background material the process is quicker, but inevitably the writer still has to add, embellish, and so forth.

The writing schedule the Mongoose writers work to tries to balance supplements, expansions and scenarios; Blood of Orlanth, for instance, has been in prep for quite some time, but owing to staff and schedule changes, got shunted back a little.

But they are coming...

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Blood of Orlanth, for instance, has been in prep for quite some time, but owing to staff and schedule changes, got shunted back a little.

Stop spoiling a perfectly good rant with reasonable explanations and acceptable excuses...

 

[RosenMcStern]

It is also worth noting that this lack of published scenarios on the part of Mongoose, coupled with the OGL policy, has left a lot of room for third party scenario publishing. My book, for instance, is 50% settings and 50% of scenarios, and most other independent supplements are heavily based on adventures and cameos.

There is of course the problem of the Gloranthan scenarios, as Glorantha is not OGL and cannot be used in independent works. But if someone has a good Second Age scenario he can submit it to S&P. And there is always Tradetalk.

 

[Loz]

Blood of Orlanth, for instance, has been in prep for quite some time, but owing to staff and schedule changes, got shunted back a little.

Stop spoiling a perfectly good rant with reasonable explanations and acceptable excuses...

I'm sorry. Please - continue the rant!

 

[gamesmeister]

You only have to look at the popularity of the early RQ adventures (Borderlands, Griffin Mountain, Big Rubble, Pavis) to appreciate the demand for quality scenarios. Perhaps they're not quite as cost efficient to write as sourcebooks, but I agree with earlier posters that these are what keep game systems alive.

The vast majority of Cthulhu books released since its inception have been scenario packs, most to a pretty high standard, and as a result that game system is still popular 26 years after its release.

I have to say though, I've got nothing but admiration for people who can sit down and write a scenario/campaign pack for publication. I couldn't do it...

 

[Loz]

The first scenario I had published was one of the chapters of 'Rogue Mistress' for Stormbringer. There were about 7 or 8 writers working on that project, and it took about 9 months to get the first draft together, from initial notes and briefing, through to first draft manuscripts. Then the whole thing got dropped, because it wasn't working as envisaged.

Then a new editor, Keith Herber, came on board, picked it up, contacted all the authors again, suggested a shed-load of changes, and we started work again. Took another 6 months. It finally came out a good year and a half after it was first conceived.

For a big campaign pack, akin to Pavis, Rubble, Griffin Mt, Borderlands, etc - that's not untypical. And working with multiple authors can be a nightmare; if one misses a deadline, the entire project has to wait. If an author drops out, someone else has to fill-in. Or the project gets rejigged to compensate. If its a single-author, the sheer volume of work required is extremely daunting. I'm no newcomer to penning big, involved campaigns, but it still daunts me when I consider the scale of work to be done (and the Dara Happa campaign is probably going to be such a project. Gulp).

There's then the task of discovering if it works. Rules and settings are relatively quick and easy to verify. But a scenario... is the pace right? Does the plot hold together? Are the NPCs correct? Where are the plot breakpoints? Is it fun? Playtesting takes a lot longer, and you can bet a decent playtest will bring up all sorts of issues that may necessitate a lot of rewriting to fix, owing to the interdependency of the material.

The upshot is, settings and rules are quicker to turn around and yes, they sell. I share the feeling that games live and breathe with their scenarios, but putting out quality scenarios (especially the big buggers) is a tough old job, and obviously, as a writer, you want to get it right.

 

[B_Steele]

The upshot is, settings and rules are quicker to turn around and yes, they sell. I share the feeling that games live and breathe with their scenarios, but putting out quality scenarios (especially the big buggers) is a tough old job, and obviously, as a writer, you want to get it right.

The other problem is, especially with an old fave like RQ, no matter what we pen there will always be dissenters that clamour "it isn't as good as X and that we shouldn't try to re-invent such things when X was good enough".

Like Lozzy said, scenarios are tough enough as it is when you have a completely blank slate...but when you have to try and make both old and new fans happy with it...it is downright daunting.

Speaking of which, back to work for me!

Cheers all,
Bry

 

[gamesmeister]

Talking of scenarios, Hunters of Granbretan in the Granbretan source book looks pretty good...it certainly reads well. I'm hoping to try it out in a couple of weeks, will let you know how it goes.

 

[B_Steele]

Talking of scenarios, Hunters of Granbretan in the Granbretan source book looks pretty good...it certainly reads well.

Thank you very much.

Cheers,
Bry

 

[RMS]

The other problem is, especially with an old fave like RQ, no matter what we pen there will always be dissenters that clamour "it isn't as good as X and that we shouldn't try to re-invent such things when X was good enough".

Like Lozzy said, scenarios are tough enough as it is when you have a completely blank slate...but when you have to try and make both old and new fans happy with it...it is downright daunting.

You really do have a completely blank slate though. That's the great thing about publishing 2nd Age material. There's no old material to be invalidated or checked against (for scenarios) to see if it works. Now, if you were trying to publish in the well explored and supported (in the past) 3rd Age, I can well appreciate the enormity of the task...and the impossibility of making people generally happy with it.

Now, I do agree that old RQ has had some of the best scenarios every published. Packs like Griffin Mountain and Pavis & Big Rubble are campaign packs against which I measure everything, and to be fair I've never seen anything that really matches those. I'd be happy though with really good shorter scenarios like we saw in RQIII in Shadows on the Borderland, Sun County*, and Strangers in Prax. They were all quality scenarios that were vary adaptable to different groups with different motivations, so easy to insert into any campaign in the region. I also liked getting three distinct adventures in each pack.

* Anyone know what happened to M. O'Brien? He did some great work in that period.

 

[Loz]

Its not as blank a canvass as you imagine, RMS. There's quite a lot of material already on 2nd Age that needs to be understood and taken into account. Much is anecdotal, but you also have to understand what happens in the 3rd Age to ensure that whatever 2nd Age material is written can happily co-exist. Whlst the fall of the destruction of Jrustela, the Closing, the fall of the EWF and the Dragonkill is a watershed, its not a clear-cut one or an abrupt one. I discovered this when writing the Dragonewts book; there's an enormous amount to reference, even with a relatvely blank canvas, scattered across inumerable, sometimes contradictory, sources.

Plus a ready army of people who've studied Glorantha from end to end who are happy to point out your faults and extrapolate what you write to prove how X couldn't possbly have led to Y....

Mr MOB O'Brien is living in the UAE and is very well. I saw him last year, and it was a pleasure as always. He's no longer active (or as active) in Glorantha but still around.

 

[RMS]

Its not as blank a canvass as you imagine, RMS. There's quite a lot of material already on 2nd Age that needs to be understood and taken into account. Much is anecdotal, but you also have to understand what happens in the 3rd Age to ensure that whatever 2nd Age material is written can happily co-exist. Whlst the fall of the destruction of Jrustela, the Closing, the fall of the EWF and the Dragonkill is a watershed, its not a clear-cut one or an abrupt one. I discovered this when writing the Dragonewts book; there's an enormous amount to reference, even with a relatvely blank canvas, scattered across inumerable, sometimes contradictory, sources.

That's more of an issue with more ranging material, like what's already been published, than with a scenario IMO. A scenario is just a snapshot in time, so we aren't talking about worrying about history, etc. with it too much. We all know how the Cradle issue is resolved in the official Glorantha history, but that doesn't mean that plenty of people haven't played the scenario where the baby is killed, the cradle is looted, and the Lunars live happily ever after (not to mention that Garrath doesn't sail off, to later return as one aspect of Argrath...).

Plus a ready army of people who've studied Glorantha from end to end who are happy to point out your faults and extrapolate what you write to prove how X couldn't possbly have led to Y....

The joys of Glorantha! I love playing in the world, but get a bit worn down by the esoteric discussions at times. If I want to go that deep, I'd much rather study the real world...but I'm weird.

Of course, I say all of this as someone who won't be in the line of fire!

Mr MOB O'Brien is living in the UAE and is very well. I saw him last year, and it was a pleasure as always. He's no longer active (or as active) in Glorantha but still around.

I really liked his material in both the old Tales and the AH publications. It had a real life to it.

 

[soltakss]

It is also worth noting that this lack of published scenarios on the part of Mongoose, coupled with the OGL policy, has left a lot of room for third party scenario publishing. My book, for instance, is 50% settings and 50% of scenarios, and most other independent supplements are heavily based on adventures and cameos.

Which is fine as far as new worlds and Fantasy Earth are concerned, which is where the strength of the OGL comes in. People like you can publish good supplements with scenarios etc.

There is of course the problem of the Gloranthan scenarios, as Glorantha is not OGL and cannot be used in independent works. But if someone has a good Second Age scenario he can submit it to S&P. And there is always Tradetalk.

As Glorantha is a main RQ setting, it seems suprising that there are NO (0) officially-published scenarios for Glorantha in published supplements. After, what, 8 supplements, I'd have expected at least one scenario.

Sure, S&P has scenarios, as would Tradetalk, but they are Fanzines, despite S&P being published by Mongoose. There will always be scenarios in fanzines but that doesn't excuse the lack of them in published supplements.

 

[atgxtg]

Simon has a good point. There should be some scenarios on the shelves by now.

It is surprising too, considering that RPGs without scenarios tend to fade away. A lot of GMs like prewritten adventures.

 

[Darran]

'Breaking the Stones' for Second Age Glorantha - don't know how this will publication. Perhaps PDF or S&P, but that concerns Dangk and Hrelar Amali.

Is this the one I played when you ran the game at Simon's?

 

[Loz]

'Breaking the Stones' for Second Age Glorantha - don't know how this will publication. Perhaps PDF or S&P, but that concerns Dangk and Hrelar Amali.

Is this the one I played when you ran the game at Simon's?

It is. Well, I've developed it a lot since that first playtest, but the setting and ideas are the same.

 

[The King]

So, when are we going to see scenarios or scenario packs or campaign packs? After all, they are the bread and butter of a roleplaying game.

If I you look at Mongoose's history, they did a lot of things before for D&D but there were very few scenarios, rather gaming aids.
I hope too they will change their minds. So far, the best scenarios/sourcebooks ratio they reached is with Slaine: 4 96-pages scenario books (making up a campaign), 1 rulebooks, 1 sourcebook and 4 tribe booklets.
I don't know if you're of pure Gloranthan root but you should give a try to this Slaine campaign if you have Orlanthi in your RQ games.

 

[RMS]

...snip...

Btw, nice signature, and it's even current for an old band! (I have my tickets on order for a September tour date.)

 

[Loz]

...snip...

Btw, nice signature, and it's even current for an old band! (I have my tickets on order for a September tour date.)

Me too!