When does the push begin?

[shotgun-toting chipmunk]

Question for the Mongoose folks:

I was wondering when the push for WOTS will begin. I ask because I went to Hobbytown in Colorado Springs yesterday, which I believe is biggest gaming store in town (two locations). I asked the owner what he had for SST, and he said only the starter box on the shelf. He told me he was waiting on an order, but his distributors seemed to be behind or something. As we talked a little more, it became abundantly clear: he was unaware what was happening with SST! He didn't know about the current production run ending (and he's expecting an order) and he thought Evo was still the way things are going.

When I mentioned that the Evo thing wasn't happening, he seemed a bit perturbed, mainly because he had no clue.

I thought this might be an isolated incident, until I was talking with another retailer on the phone. He too was unaware of anything beyond Evo.

So back to the original question: When are retailers going to get into the loop? I don't think this can be put off too long, as they're already starting to feel left out. And this is a Bad Thing.

 

[Paladin]

If a retailer isn't signed up for Mongoose's newsletter I doubt they get any info at all. There is a newsletter that retailers can sign up for, because I asked to be put on the list for news items Evocommand.com. Mongoose sends out a notice somewhere around once a month. I'd recommend you pass on the signup process to both retailers

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/retailers.php

 

[Goldwyrm]

One problem is retailers are like a lot of gamers, or just people in general. They're better at receiving information being pushed to them rather than go looking for it themselves.

So while that newsletter signup is actually a great thing to have in place, I'd suggest Mongoose proactively send it to retailers so they don't have to use the energy to look for it themselves, perhaps even linking signup with some free demonstration product. Then for those retailers placing an order offer a raffle for some cool techno gadget like an Ipod or Wii to encourage participation.

 

[Paladin]

One problem is retailers are like a lot of gamers, or just people in general. They're better at receiving information being pushed to them rather than go looking for it themselves.

So while that newsletter signup is actually a great thing to have in place, I'd suggest Mongoose proactively send it to retailers so they don't have to use the energy to look for it themselves, perhaps even linking signup with some free demonstration product. Then for those retailers placing an order offer a raffle for some cool techno gadget like an Ipod or Wii to encourage participation.

I wholeheartedly agree. The current method is what I call "Field of Dreams" marketting. "If you build it they will come." Unfortunately that only works in the movies. They won't come if they don't know it exists.

 

[Ben2]

Yeah, GW can get through on market domination and extreme gamer interest in the background, combined of course with generous helpings of evil :twisted:

However Mongoose need to get a lot slicker, and have a long period of not having any problems with printing/proof reading/production. Then bribing LGS with some decent offers and some proof of what is coming and the quality it will be.

 

[ScipioAmericanus]

Guys:

MGP are well aware of all of the concerns you have expressed.

Probably the SINGLE most important reason that I will be at GAMA '08 will be to talk with people in the distribution chain (distributors, owners, etc.) and alleviate any concerns about SST:WOTS and other products. "Face time" is crucial, so that will be my primary mission.

Marketing and promotion is absolutely key to the success of SST:WOTS, so rest assured that the campaign will be designed with success in mind!

Regards.

 

[Gauntlet-]

Look im all for positive attitude...

but saying its being designed with success in mind isn't reassuring whatsoever... No company designs anything with Failure in mind now does it?

Success and Fairly have little to do with intent of design in these terms, its in quality. I know you Know this. I'm just nit-picking, but you can try a little harder too.

Something like... I dunno... Their marketing strategy exists, this is a massive step forward from non-existence. Or that it is being budgeted as a Long Term Continual Expense, as opposed to a limited time only expense.

That makes a big difference and is much more conclusive.

Not that you necessarily doknow/can reveal such things.

 

[ScipioAmericanus]

Look im all for positive attitude...

but saying its being designed with success in mind isn't reassuring whatsoever... No company designs anything with Failure in mind now does it?

Success and Fairly have little to do with intent of design in these terms, its in quality. I know you Know this. I'm just nit-picking, but you can try a little harder too.

Something like... I dunno... Their marketing strategy exists, this is a massive step forward from non-existence. Or that it is being budgeted as a Long Term Continual Expense, as opposed to a limited time only expense.

That makes a big difference and is much more conclusive.

Not that you necessarily doknow/can reveal such things.

Gauntlet:

Your concerns and comments are well-founded, and I appreciate your candor.

"Quality" is the absolute imperitive. Matt has said this, and I am echoing what he said. Personally, it is my PRIME focus. It is the PRIME focus for MGP.

The marketing strategy exists and Matt and I have discussed it...and will continue to do so. MGP's commitment to SST:WOTS is LOOOOOOOOONG TERM.

But...if you want me to make concrete and specific promises...then I will politely refuse to do so. None of us will make concrete or specific promises.

You have to remember: SST:WOTS is not just a re-release....it's a re-DEVELOPMENT. It is WAY too early in the process to start making concrete promises.

I know a lot. And SST:WOTS "rocks my socks!" But this is also a public forum, and we would be foolish to "telegraph our punch" or show our cards to competitors, wouldn't we? I say what I can to keep you guys interested and enthused, but at the end of the day there are simply many things that just must remain un-told for now. That is not me being arrogant or trying to appear be important...it is just basic business sense.

Regards.

 

[BuShips]

I think Gauntlet raised some good points and so did Scipio. It's a bit of a vicious circle. If the game is rushed out because of our impatience, it will suffer. There was so much "right" with the first take that I can wait for the proper work to be done with it for v2. Marketing is a topic that Matt did mention in his address, so we can hope that proper attention will be paid to it. As I remember, one of Scipio's arrows in his quiver was marketing experience so Gauntlet can mark that down for future reference. :wink:

 

[ScipioAmericanus]

I think Gauntlet raised some good points and so did Scipio. It's a bit of a vicious circle. If the game is rushed out because of our impatience, it will suffer. There was so much "right" with the first take that I can wait for the proper work to be done with it for v2. Marketing is a topic that Matt did mention in his address, so we can hope that proper attention will be paid to it. As I remember, one of Scipio's arrows in his quiver was marketing experience so Gauntlet can mark that down for future reference. :wink:

BuShips:

There will be NO rush. When we promise you guys something, it will already have been "cherry" for a while before you even get a whiff of it.

To all those wanting instant gratification...well, sorry, but you're just gonna have to wait. SST:WOTS WILL NOT be rushed. I'm sure that Matt will keep you informed, and I will as well (as much as I am able).

A few months is not all that long to wait, is it?

Regards.

 

[shotgun-toting chipmunk]

Good to hear about GAMA, but what about until then? Like I mentioned before, there are retailers still trying to get orders of the "old" stuff, not knowing it's going out of production. I know it will be compatible, but with the fickle nature of gamers (ie "they're not making anything new, so I won't buy anything") might peeve those retailers a bit if they think the stuff is going to sit.

 

[Paladin]

How hard would it be (do they exist) to buy/get a mailing list/db of existing hobby/comic shops in the US/UK/other regions?

 

[MongooseMatt]

How hard would it be (do they exist) to buy/get a mailing list/db of existing hobby/comic shops in the US/UK/other regions?

You would be _amazed_. There are not many distributors willing to give up their list of retailers, for any price.

 

[Wolfsbane]

I'll remind the managers of my LGS & locations where I'm demo'ing SST but I know already (at two out of four) that they're a little underwhelmed/unimpressed of late ... telling them wait til summer doesn't seem like a strong gambit ... suggestions ?

 

[Paladin]

How hard would it be (do they exist) to buy/get a mailing list/db of existing hobby/comic shops in the US/UK/other regions?

You would be _amazed_. There are not many distributors willing to give up their list of retailers, for any price.

Time to send out some scroungers to build a database from the retailer listings of other game manufacturers and the yellow pages online. :twisted:

 

[Gauntlet-]

Not rushing out into the market is a good thing... and promises need to be kept or not made so also a good thing.

I really hope they do a good long term marketing campaign.

Advice for demo-ers?

Don't? Least not to major retailers... don't demo a game which doesn't really exist yet, it will be different rules and different models, and odds are they heard of the game from other stores and got a bad impression... wait until you have shiny support, rules and models to go pitching to the stores.

TO individual people I would go go go and promote it, but to the store as a whole it seems unwise to me. What if they say 'sure' and then see the lack of production?

 

[127th Angry Angels]

I agree, wait till you have something to promote. If all goes to plan the game will give alot of things to shout about and Mongoose will be able to supply nice pics and concrete info on what you can offer as the future of SST to new recruits. Best to hold off until you got some real detail to sell, otherwise it'll be you they complain to when things change or (and we hope not) don't pan out.

 

[erion]

I'm glad to see Mongoose has learned the lesson of not putting the cart before the horse.

Really. I'm skeptically optimistic about WOTS. I've just seen too many companies making too many promises about Absolutely Fantastic Stuff Coming Soon(TM) and then failing miserably to follow through. I'm glad to see that Mongoose is planning to take the re-launch/re-development of SST slow and steady. Let us know when you've got the first-wave models and the printed rulebooks in the warehouse and ready to ship.

I enjoyed the game immensely when it released, and am looking forward to a revitalized product.

 

[Londo-X]

I think the big problem we have here is that we live in a time of information explosion. take movies for example, George Lucas fevereshly hid all info he could from fans for Empire and Jedi going as far as shooting under a fake title, yet with episodes 1,2,&3 he invited fans to pay a premium to get "exclusive access" to info that was going to leak out on the internet a week later. The net has also realy effected our hobby, as again there is a lot of temptation to talk about your latest ideas but give out too much then people will get impatient, but not enough info now means "something is wrong" in the 80s it wold be much easier to put a line on hiatus but today a game product goes 1 month without a release and it's a "dead system" even though most of us don't buy those self same releases every month.

The other side of how the net changes the industry is it's much easier to get detached into subgroups. in short if you read high times then you might get the impression that everyone smokes pot. or if you read white Dwarf then you might believe everyone plays warhammer. It's easy to get wrapped up in the web community and feel betrayed when you see them make a move you don't agree with. Still retailers are going to get some notice and again thier psychology about won't be the same as the players, after all you and I are interested in what sounds like fun they have to be interested in the bottom line they may have no interest or love for Magic the Gathering but they will carry it if only because it sells so well. I used to have an FLGS where the store owner would go to GAMA events tell me that game X was lame, and then turn around an carry it, why because it was from a big developer and they were given a good deal on promotion once the game was in production.

The bottom line here is that many gamers may have left SST but that does not mean that it will fail merely on that merit, in the time since the SST crisis started we gained and lost a game store in my area, and the other 2 I visit never carried. SST due to the GW stranglehold, and interest in Warmachine and AT43. I got most of mine at cons and on line. which is also how I get ACTA (Which has not lost any steam since it's start!) but that could change with WOTS. if not the web stores have done a fantastic job of carrying it, and like any other game as long as it is profitable they will make more.