When Amu's go BOOM!

[skavendan]

Frankly I wouldnt mind seeing the skindancing rule just plain removed. Its just not needed really on the scale ACTA is modelled and is frankly open to abuse.

Yup and let's not forget here it's a warrior cast minbari trait and they can not do with with anything part from a fighter?

Your not telling me a blood thursty warrior who believes death is a good thing wouldn't try the most bizare stunt in the name of. It seemed like a good idea at the time

 

[Burger]

Yup and let's not forget here it's a warrior cast minbari trait

The Religious caste seem to do it pretty well, when they are fighting the Drakh motheship.

 

[Banichi]

I don't really mind when fighters skin dance, it's when you get a freaking whitestar doing it that it annoys me.

 

[skavendan]

I don't really mind when fighters skin dance, it's when you get a freaking whitestar doing it that it annoys me.

And my point being if a whitestar can why can't a small Minbari ship let's say a Tigara-class Attack Cruiser or if your going to say it's too big then a Torotha-class Assault Frigate.

It is an Assault ship after all I can hardly see a ship in the hands of a warrior class bone head going ok where out of weapons let's bug out! Yeah right

 

[Banichi]

I think the logic behind ws skindancing is that they are the next gen of warship, and damn near as manuovereable as a fighter. Whereas a torotha, while still being a small manuoverable ship, is still a much older class of ship and is nowhere near manuoverable enough to pull off a stunt like skindancing.

 

[skavendan]

I think the logic behind ws skindancing is that they are the next gen of warship, and damn near as manuovereable as a fighter. Whereas a torotha, while still being a small manuoverable ship, is still a much older class of ship and is nowhere near manuoverable enough to pull off a stunt like skindancing.

Who said anything about skin dancing it is a ni deliberate attempt to ram something because it's easier than an actual ram roll!

 

[Taran]

But the damage output is also far lower. And, unlike a ram, there is absolutely no chance, whatsoever, of the skindancing ship surviving crashing. And finally, in the case that the ramming ship does die (when does it not?) you get the additional ship explosion for damage on the target (and anything else close enough.

Ramming: harder to accomplish. 1/2 starting damage AD, SAP, TD, Ship Explosion: 1/2 starting damage AD (max 15)

Failed Skindance: starting damage AD

So a WS Ramming has a 5 AD, SAP, TD attack with the likely 5AD BOOM afterwards.

A WS skindance fail has a 10 AD nothing. No Boom.


Thanks, but I'll stick with Ramming.

 

[Da Boss]

Ramming is massively difficult to do with a very specific set ot cricumstances needed to even let you attempt it.........

first you need to be crippled
You need to be able to attempt special actions (so not skeleton crewed or you have a Flight computer)
Then you need to make CQ check of 9 (same as skin dancing)
You get +50% speed but can only turn once (skin dancing you can move normally)
If you manage to connect then you make a second CQ check! - If made you finally manage to connect! Given you are crippled you are pretty likely to die...................

Skindancing - move into contact and roll 4+ - job done

I am all in favour of a proper Skin dancing rule - unlike the present mess where the objective is to make a attack run rather than ram.

I have NEVER seen a ram work in all my games - in the last three months I have seen 6 Skindance rams made and more attempted - and people cursing when they make the roll is the telling part................

Make it a Special order and sort out the rules problems - much better all round

 

[Taran]

What that tells me is that ramming needs to be reworked.

 

[Da Boss]

Not against that! Ramming - love it BFG

But do you allow skin dancing against ships that have not moved and what happens when they do - does the ship stay with them?

Can you dodge (roll with) the impact?

would it not be better to have a rule that actually made it easier to Skindance big lumbering ships and harder to do so against agile ones? (like ramming)

 

[CZuschlag]

Agreed. I've seen the same behavior, Da Boss. It's stupid as is.

I have seen ramming work several times. Sometimes too well. I've done it with Drakh Raiders several times, an Ochliavita once, and I think I did it with a .... Minbari, was it? Can't remember.

But I've seen White Stars do it way too easily. If you made it just ... "Do 1d6 standard hits, and then die" instead of full ramming damage, and the Skin Dancing roll becomes something a lot more marginal instead of the current use as an improved suicide roll.

 

[Taran]

But do you allow skin dancing against ships that have not moved and what happens when they do - does the ship stay with them?

Agreed. Needs clarified.

Can you dodge (roll with) the impact?

I don't undertsand the question.

would it not be better to have a rule that actually made it easier to Skindance big lumbering ships and harder to do so against agile ones? (like ramming)

Agreed. But these are not the primary points being made by most people about skindancing. Most are complaining that it's nothing more than "an easier ram" or "too powerful" and they are trying to nerf it.

Besides, considering the Very special circumstances required to Ram, I still think it should be made easier.

 

[Burger]

You get +50% speed but can only turn once (skin dancing you can move normally)

Yeah you can only turn once, and only up to 45 degrees, because you're crippled. Also don't forget crippling makes your speed half... so -50%, plus 50% gives a net loss of 25% of your original speed. Then deduct any speed modifiers that you got on your way to becoming crippled (quite hard to get crippled without speed modifiers, they are so common!)

And all that is assuming you're not skeletoned, and can still perform special actions (so no no special actions crits on your way to becomming crippled either...)

For the record I think ramming is fine. It is hard to pull off, yes. But it is very nasty when it happens, so it is balanced. Skin dancing however, is too easy to deliberately fail.

 

[Deathstar 07]

Once when i was playing ISA against EA, my opponent rammed into my Tala'lin with a CIVILIAN ship. It provided a long fought out moral issue about killing civilians...

 

[Burger]

Once when i was playing ISA against EA, my opponent rammed into my Tala'lin with a CIVILIAN ship. It provided a long fought out moral issue about killing civilians...

Civvy ships have a CQ of 2, how did you manage to roll a 9? 7-sided dice?

 

[H]

isn't a 6 always a pass? ;-)

 

[Da Boss]

Can you dodge (roll with) the impact?

I don't undertsand the question.

If you have it can you use your dodge trait to attempt to avoid some / all of the damage from a "ramming" skin dancer - Ramming says no - Skin dancing does not say........

oh and I did put all these on rulemasters but never answered..............

 

[Burger]

isn't a 6 always a pass? ;-)

Nope, not on a CQ check.

 

[Taran]

Can you dodge (roll with) the impact?

I don't undertsand the question.

If you have it can you use your dodge trait to attempt to avoid some / all of the damage from a "ramming" skin dancer - Ramming says no - Skin dancing does not say........

oh and I did put all these on rulemasters but never answered..............

I will admit the rule doesn't say, but that doesn't pass the smell check. The ship just Crashed into you. That's why it's dead. Kind of hard to dodge something that already hit you.
Unless you want to open it up and say that a successful dodge means the skindancer is still alive.
Or you could dodge the skindance attempt. Then roll to see if you dodged Into the dancer or away...

No. That's a new rule altogether. Be interesting to try as a house rule...

 

[ATN082268]

Ramming is massively difficult to do with a very specific set ot cricumstances needed to even let you attempt it.........

first you need to be crippled
You need to be able to attempt special actions (so not skeleton crewed or you have a Flight computer)
Then you need to make CQ check of 9 (same as skin dancing)
You get +50% speed but can only turn once (skin dancing you can move normally)
If you manage to connect then you make a second CQ check! - If made you finally manage to connect! Given you are crippled you are pretty likely to die...................

Skindancing - move into contact and roll 4+ - job done

I am all in favour of a proper Skin dancing rule - unlike the present mess where the objective is to make a attack run rather than ram.

I have NEVER seen a ram work in all my games - in the last three months I have seen 6 Skindance rams made and more attempted - and people cursing when they make the roll is the telling part................

Make it a Special order and sort out the rules problems - much better all round

Hi,

I just had two questions about ramming:

1. Does it matter whether the ship being rammed has moved or not in the turn it is being rammed? Incidentally, are immobile targets easier to hit?

2. When the rules mention ships "contact" each other in a ram, does that merely mean their counters touch?

Thanks.

Andrew Norris