MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
No. For making things of their TL, there are Manufacturing Plants in High Guard. TL-15 Manufacturing Plants put out TL-15 goods.
What's your goto tech?
- Thread starter Sheelba
- Start date
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Agreed. I know both Myself and @Terry Mixon have houseruled the hell out of them in our games.
actionman
Emperor Mongoose
How does TL affect the number and sweatiness of the Bwaps in the sweatshop?
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I'm working more with fabrication units. The most I've done with manufacturing plants is extend them to TL16 and use the rules @MasterGwydion worked up.Can you remind me if you have any threads that discuss your houserules, I would be interested how you both do it, if not then a few hours of searching the forums it is
It's probably this thread.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It effects the irrigation system to keep them moist...
This is category not true in adventure after adventure the local worlds TL determines the goods and services available. Yes there is trade but there’s a lot more to trade than high tech finished products.
Funny it happens in the real world all the time, whole factories can and do go down because of a part or system that was not supposed to be able to break. As for backups most backup system don’t support nearly as much. It’s not economical or practical to have a whole power plant sitting doing nothing except waiting just in case, and remember even an inactive power plant is going to need maintenance.
In all of this you’re still missing one major thing Tech Level is Infrastructure and a power plant for example is a part of infrastructure. Do some worlds rely on off world Tech to survive yes they do but there’s a book you need to get a copy of and read it’s Megatraveller’s Hardtimes it show what happens to these worlds when trade breaks down.
There’s another factor you’re missing and that is logistics there’s not enough ships in the entire Chart Space setting to support just the imperium on the level your suggesting.
actionman
Emperor Mongoose
I'm past caring.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It is true, if you want I can cite you CT, MT, TNE, T4, and of course MgT examples of low TL worlds with C+ starports, more advanced gear from offworld, Also, the trade tables. The TL of the world matters not to the speculative goods you can buy...
It happens very infrequently. Can you give some examples of factories that have closed on a monthly basics perhaps. As to having backup generators, hew in the real world they are common, so common no one notices, ubtil some idiot decides to get rid due to net zero stupidity and suddenly an entire airport has no power - if it had kept its back up generators it wouldn't have happened.
You mean when worlds no longer have access to the higher TL stuff you claim they don't have?
According to the setting there are enough ships, you may want to read up on the setting. The Traveller Adventure shows typical shipping lines for the Aramis subsector, GURPS Far Trader does an excellent job of detailing the trade system according to their economic bias. Mpngoose have yet to produce their trade book.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The usual answer is, what works, and doesn't need my attention.
Like kidz, seen and not heard.
Like kidz, seen and not heard.
Sigtrygg: I am tacking this onto your post as I agree with your overall take but would take it further.
I think CRB does set out their stall (in so far as there is a stall to set out). MGT2 trade goods are somewhat different to other versions and also far more specific about what they consist of but they broadly parallel the other versions. I have no indication that the MGT2 Imperium setting applies modifiers to those tables (happy to be corrected).
It is baked into the rules that every star port has every type of common trade good including "Common Electronics" (including computers up to TL10). They will cost more to buy and command a slightly higher price on sale on Low Tech planets (DM+1 on price) but they will be for sale. Low Population has more impact than Low Tech.
If 2D10 DTons is available to any wandering intra-system trader then I am inclined to think they are available to any wandering planetary trader as well. More likely in fact as the intra-system trader will be buying them elsewhere and selling them here.
CSC also makes it clear on how the availability of goods is affected by TL. You might have pay more to ensure availability but rarely will the additional cost not pay for itself with improved functionality and it has to be many TLs difference before the availability tails off to a point where things are categorically not available. Sure you may not have planetwide electrical systems, but every farmstead could have a wind generator, a solar panel, and some batteries to power a laptop or some small electronics even at even marginal TLs. There is little reason not to given the advantage they bring. It might not be every single household, and the further away from the port the more expensive stuff will get because of... business.
Also consider CSC p4:
"On worlds with no prior interstellar contact, any items above the local Tech Level will be extremely rare and have an artefact-like status; they will rarely be for sale and any acquisition by the Traveller will likely require an adventure, not a dice roll."
So it doesn't even prevent finding higher TL stuff that is natively produced or other non trade route (crash maybe?) Also: CSC p4
"Under normal purchasing conditions, an item unlikely to be found on a world due to its Tech Level being too low or Law Level being too high should not be made available to Travellers."
There is no basic premise that high TL stuff should not be available on Low Tech Worlds.
TL used to play a part in trade in some editions of Traveller (GURPS particularly), it might even make sense for it to, but it is a referee decision for their campaign/setting that is at odds with the default assumption of the MGT2 ruleset.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Okay, sorry, but it creeps me out when I see my words quoted. Is that weird? Or is it just me?
Don't answer that.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Couldn’t help myself.
Are you allowed to like your own words - or would that be too meta
More importantly am I misinterpreting - it's good to be able to get it from the K'Kree's mouth so to speak.
It creeps me out when I see my words quoted incorrectly, but since I only have a small credit in a single published work so I rarely have that problem
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Things are as rare as you want them to be (yeah, I know, not an answer, but it is... It's just not an easy answer). But your commentary is good.
Oh, sure there are satellite phones (and maybe Starlink?) in Afghanistan or the Central African Republic, even though locals could probably barely sustain TL5 manufacturing, but the amount of trade across interstellar distances might not make the equivalent of the Afghani solar farm practical to support (Still, there are probably Chinese solar panels brought over the passes on pack mules).
But the common trade goods are probably the things that are so widespread that they really are 'common'. At least in principle, at a starport. But that doesn't mean you'll see them outside the port and immediate vicinity. It could be that some local is reexporting a batch of TL10 common electronics that couldn't find buyers because the local tech infrastructure couldn't support the power needed to operate the KitchoMatic 5000.
One thing I like about Star Wars is the design aesthetic: out on the Rim, it's not all new and shiny. You will likely get your droids used from a Jawa and have them repaired by some kid in a back-alley shop. That mix of local tech (adobe buildings and tents?) sprinkled with not-so-gentle-used high tech is what I'd expect to see. Might be that you can find a laser rifle in some back alley, but nobody has a working power pack for it...
Also... don't stick your hand in a K'kree's mouth. Just because they won't eat meat doesn't mean they won't bite it off and spit it out. Or so that Hiver over there just told me, so it must be true.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That fits my universe view as well. If course since the TL of a planet is not generated wholly in isolation from other factors the likelihood of having a very low TL planet with a highly developed Star Port is nil anyway. Class A port means TL minimum of 7 assuming no mad governments.
A planet with odd atmosphere and hydrography will be getting a significant boost as well as small planets and even low population planets so generally TL10 being available (though not necessarily common) seems to be a reasonable assumption across the board. You may have to go all the way to Toche station to pick up power converters, but they are not going to be sacred artifacts.
"Normal" planets that are in the 6-8 range in their characteristics can get by with low tech. Again that doesn't mean it is not available, it just means nobody is that bothered living their lives by it.
Motmos for example is TL5 and has a Class B star port, but it is a garden world. It is probably full of hipsters who prefer a library full of books to a Kindle. That doesn't mean they won't use fusion power (as it is the greenest energy source) but they may not have overhead power lines everywhere for aesthetic reasons, limiting the power to an in home system (possibly hidden away). Grav vehicles are so noisy and you can't appreciate the scenery moving so fast, bicycles and airships are far more serene and cool.
Inchin on the other hand is TL10, but the impression I get is that most of that tech will be concentrated with the dictator and little will trickle down to the plebs. My trade experiment there was typified by a depressing lack of market opportunities. Those living out in the desert are likely to be living pretty meagre lives and the advanced technology they do have is likely to be robust survival gear (like the Fremen in Dune or maybe the Skywalkers).
Pavabid is TL6 but it is specifically isolationist and we know for example that Grav technology "doesn't exist" because the theocracy darned well says so and that floating palace is because of Gohdd! They probably don't have much in the way of comms infrastructure either, but that just stops heresy from spreading so that is entirely orthodox. Pavabid has an entirely adequate star port, it's just the locals can't visit it and so advanced technology will only exist where the Theocracy allow it (so the majority will be with the Son of the Star). We also know it is a routine task to land a ship in the hinterland without anyone noticing as Pavidians are not permitted to leave the planet, yet there is a sizeable Pavidian diaspora.
These largely random TLs have been turned into story drivers rather than equipment limitations. Like Star Wars even a systems TL will flex depending on the application (Sand Trooper rides on Dewbacks rather than AT-STs but they still have blasters). Logistic support is not just a matter of TL, but TL might be heavily dependent on Logistics support.
IanBruntlett
Emperor Mongoose
Within the Third Imperium, Starports are Imperial Territory (managed by the (Imperial) Starport Authority - the SPA). Because of this, you can easily have a low tech world with a Starport with a higher TL than the planet it is on / in orbit of.
See the Mongoose 1st Edition book, "Starports".
