What's your goto tech?

[MasterGwydion]

So not CT then, not even MgT. Is there a similar statement for MgT? I tend to ignore most of the GT pontifications.

I tend to default to the most recent publication for Canon-type stuff. I use MgT2 if at all possible because it is easier for My players to focus on one generation of rules and setting books. lol

And as you have noted GT did not use the same TL scale as Traveller.

No, but the conversion is easy since it is posted on the Traveller Wiki.

Technology Level/meta - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

 

[Sigtrygg]

GURPS 3e TL is different to GURPS 4e, GT TL is based on 3e which then requires conversion to Traveller TL. GT:ISW is based on 4e and so has a different conversion to Traveller TL.

It is not so easy.

GURPS TL	8	9	9	9	10	10	11	12
Traveller TL	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15

GT:ISW TL	8	9	9	10	11
Traveller TL	8	9	10	11	12

 

[Terry Mixon]

This isn’t directly relevant, but if all class A Starports could build TL15 ships, the sector and subsector fleets wouldn’t be TL12. Not proof, but a strong indicator.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Sector and subsector fleets are not TL12...

Regular IN fleets are TL15

Colonial forces are TL 13->15

 

[Terry Mixon]

Sector and subsector fleets are not TL12...

Regular IN fleets are TL15

Colonial forces are TL 13->15

Okay, you are correct. My memory failed me, but the point still stands. If all starports could build TL15, there wouldn’t be much call for lower TL vessels, in my opinion.

 

[Sigtrygg]

They changed the drive paradigm, the jump TL paradigm, and the warship construction paradigm.

 

[swordtart]

The reason for producing things at a lower TL, is that lower TL stuff is cheaper. Not just in higher TL systems but intrinsically. With an effective trade network this enables low TL worlds to contribute to trade and thus balance their trade.

In a colonial fleet I don't need TL15 jump 6 ships as I am not defending a sector, I am defending the subsector at most and probably systems a few parsecs away so TL12 Jump 3 is plenty. Higher TL power plants are more expensive but if you need to move vast distances will be able to offset the extra cost of high TL in savings in overall size and thus fuel. The bulky lower TL power plants also don't matter in ships if the overall power requirement is lower. I don't even need jump drives at all for my system defence vessels.

Higher TL weapons and armour are always going to be useful, but I can also afford to have more layers of cheaper armour as it doesn't need to be moved as far. Similarly weapon systems.

The colonial forces need to be largely funded from local taxation. Every Cr saved is a Cr you can gift to your Billionaire supporters in tax breaks

 

[Terry Mixon]

The reason for producing things at a lower TL, is that lower TL stuff is cheaper. Not just in higher TL systems but intrinsically. With an effective trade network this enables low TL worlds to contribute to trade and thus balance their trade.

In a colonial fleet I don't need TL15 jump 6 ships as I am not defending a sector, I am defending the subsector at most and probably systems a few parsecs away so TL12 Jump 3 is plenty. Higher TL power plants are more expensive but if you need to move vast distances will be able to offset the extra cost of high TL in savings in overall size and thus fuel. The bulky lower TL power plants also don't matter in ships if the overall power requirement is lower. I don't even need jump drives at all for my system defence vessels.

Higher TL weapons and armour are always going to be useful, but I can also afford to have more layers of cheaper armour as it doesn't need to be moved as far. Similarly weapon systems.

The colonial forces need to be largely funded from local taxation. Every Cr saved is a Cr you can gift to your Billionaire supporters in tax breaks

Let me clearly state that I believe the starport yards in general do produce lower tech level ship. Not because they are all TL15 but building down, though. Why pay the expense of building a TL15 shipyard if most people won't be using the full capabilities? Settle for TL13 and let high tech level builds happen at specialty yards.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Let me clearly state that I believe the starport yards in general do produce lower tech level ship. Not because they are all TL15 but building down, though. Why pay the expense of building a TL15 year if most people won't be using the full capabilities? Settle for TL13 and let high tech level builds happen at specialty yards.

This wouldn't make sense IMTU because I use a house rule that makes building ship components at higher TLs with lower TL capabilities, allowing them to be built cheaper. 10% for 1 TL above, 25% for 2 TLs above, and 50% for 3 TLs above. The same as for buying upgrades such as Stealth Jump, but in reverse.

 

[Terry Mixon]

This wouldn't make sense IMTU because I use a house rule that makes building ship components at higher TLs with lower TL capabilities, allowing them to be built cheaper. 10% for 1 TL above, 25% for 2 TLs above, and 50% for 3 TLs above. The same as for buying upgrades such as Stealth Jump, but in reverse.

If that was the general rule, that would be true. With the rules as written, well, likely not so much.

 

[Vormaerin]

This is a result of the Traveller tendency to pretend everything is in one spot and does everything. Regina is TL12 (post retcon). It builds TL 15 military vessels. We know this, because it is it explicitly stated to be one of the major naval shipyards in the region.

That does not mean that there is only one shipyard and none of the others are matched to the domestic technology. Most likely, the vast majority of ships built at Regina are TL 12 civilian craft by a variety of shipbuilders and spaceports. But they do import higher tech parts for the small number of TL 15 shipbuilders that operate there. They may well have TL 15 factories on Regina to make those parts, just like colonial nations built "Modern" factories in their otherwise lower tech colonies IRL.

Just like we don't build F15s and Cessnas in the same facilities, they will have TL 15 facilities and TL 12 facilities in the Regina system.

 

[MasterGwydion]

This is a result of the Traveller tendency to pretend everything is in one spot and does everything. Regina is TL12 (post retcon). It builds TL 15 military vessels. We know this, because it is it explicitly stated to be one of the major naval shipyards in the region.

That does not mean that there is only one shipyard and none of the others are matched to the domestic technology. Most likely, the vast majority of ships built at Regina are TL 12 civilian craft by a variety of shipbuilders and spaceports. But they do import higher tech parts for the small number of TL 15 shipbuilders that operate there. They may well have TL 15 factories on Regina to make those parts, just like colonial nations built "Modern" factories in their otherwise lower tech colonies IRL.

Just like we don't build F15s and Cessnas in the same facilities, they will have TL 15 facilities and TL 12 facilities in the Regina system.

Both F-15s and Cessnas are the same TL. So, in Traveller terms, they would be built in the same facilities. Both built in the equivalent of TL-7 shipyards.

 

[Condottiere]

Still doesn’t mean every starport is getting shipped the TL15 resources to repair and maintain all ships, if you really consider the logistics that’s just insane.

Logic would indicate that since the Syleans imperialized at technological level twelve, and that was one of their big selling points, it would be the minimum they maintained.

You could justify that on a lots of grounds, like a cutting edge new international airport.

 

[tytalan]

Logic would indicate that since the Syleans imperialized at technological level twelve, and that was one of their big selling points, it would be the minimum they maintained.

You could justify that on a lots of grounds, like a cutting edge new international airport.

I would agree with the core but the imperium has grown by a factor of at least 10 maintaining even TL 12 on all starports would require a huge use of freight but at least TL 12 is fairly common. When you consider that the Spinward marches has what 10? Or so TL 15 systems in 1105 and only a few of those are manufacturing centers. At least with TL 12 you vastly increase the number of worlds that the starports can draw from.

 

[Condottiere]

I bet maintaining a grade bee starport is lots cheaper than a grade ay.

Importing the technology would be a minor line item, since there would be less of it

And then you drop off to grade cee.

 

[rinku]

CT Book 2 never even bothered with TL of ships aside from limiting what options were available, and even after High Guard was released it remained the default way you built civilian ships. Drives were standard models, not custom percentages of hull. Hulls were normally standard models with specific engineering section sizes - anything outside of that needed a custom hull that cost a little more. The TL of a starport did not affect what it could repair. It wasn't spelled out, but it was implied that standardisation ruled and you could get parts for anything at any Starport C or better. Probably manufactured at an industrial hub and shipped out to the repair facility, but isn't that just like real life?

Mongoose's default TL12 seems to be taken from that idea.

I can see the powerhouse industrial worlds happily churning out an endless stream of TL12 standard designs that are far cheaper to make there than any actual TL12 world. Standard parts may not actually be economic to manufacture within a subsector or two of a planet like Mora/Mora.

 

[Vormaerin]

I think the TL system is excessively granular. I don't think most people could tell you what would be different about the experience of visiting a TL 11 world vs a TL 12 world or a TL 13 world. I'm sure I could flip through the charts and eventually find something to hang the TL difference on, but is it really useful? I don't find it so. Especially once you consider the massive impact of trade and the fact these worlds are colonies from other space faring planets originally.

I can buy and use cellphones in Bangladesh, even though they are not inventing or building them there (unless someone else built a factory there, but I'm not aware of that happening). The same is going to be true of every world in the Imperium that isn't interdicted or way off the trade lanes. Might only be one or two cellphones per community instead of nearly everyone having one in their pocket, but they'll be available. The same will be true of most planets in the imperium. Most of the community might use solar powered EV tractors, but that doesn't mean that the there isn't an imported mini-fusion plant running some of the essentials in town.

So the idea that shipyards in the Empire can't be stocked with a variety of parts and have a range of technological production facilties doesn't ring true to me. There's only 5 Class A starports in the Regina subsector and 4 of them are TL 12 or 13 and have either an Imperial Navy base, an Imperial Scout Base, or both. The exception is Kinorb, which is TL 8 because of legal limits on technology allowed on the planet for ecological reasons. And, as I said before, General Shippyards and the other shipbuilders probably have a small enclave of TL 15 factories to support their shipbuilding for the portion of the shipyard that makes the TL15 ships. Which will probably all be either military vessels or going to the ultra wealthy for their yachts and private fleets. From a practical point of view, the players aren't likely to have access to the that so it doesn't matter that it exists.

As an aside, IMC, I crush the TLs way down to like 7. Space faring is "Early (TL 7-9), Average (10-13), or High (14-16). And since I run my campaign in the Islands subsectors, I can actually make it a lot simpler, because Early covers all the colony worlds and Average covers all the "major" powers. High is visiting Imperial vessels. And no one except the interdicted primitives are less than "Early".

 

[rinku]

Law Level is often more relevant than Tech Level for the shopping lists. That's why the discerning spacer shops at Efate

 

[Vormaerin]

Yeah, if your players are fond of dying, loading up on high end military gear is a godsend. How else are the GMs going to feel like it's okay to use Expert program enhanced Gauss rifles that can see through obstacles at extreme range if the players don't start the ball rolling?

Nothing says "I wanna play in the big leagues" like loading up on military grade weaponry at the local low law level world.

 

[rinku]

Ehh... Efate is not just for the weapons and the military grade stuff. Sure, I bought a laser rifle and a gauss pistol, but also a shotgun and stunner, and topped up the software and bought a neat recon bot. If I'd had the budget, some heavier armour would have been nice too. But you dress for the room.