What would happen if NASA invented the Jump Drive tomorrow?

Tom Kalbfus

Mongoose
Lets imagine that tomorrow, a scientist working for NASA invented the Jump Drive. Only the Jump Drive nothing else, the rules for jump Drives apply here including the 100 diameter limit and the fuel requirement. For getting off the planet's surface, chemical rockets are the only thing NASA has to work with. So how would NASA send 100 dtons to the 100 diameter limit, suppose it made a Jump to Alpha Centauri, lets assume the garden World Prometheus is there to explore, what would NASA do, how much would it cost, and how long would it take? An atomic reactor could substitute for the fusion power plant in supplying the energy requirements for the Jump Drive. What do you think?

Prometheus 2027 A785969E Scout Base Gas Giant Present Ga Hi Stellar Data Trinary G2 V, K2 V, M5 V

What would the stats be for 2015? The Social Data would be different I think. I don't know if Prometheus had any native inhabitants.
 
NASA would probably use this vehicle to get 100 tons to 100 Earth diameters:
slsslide-nasa0.jpg

The payload would include an atomic reactor and 20 tons of liquid hydrogen plus the Jump-2 drive. Exploring Prometheus is easy, getting back is another story. It would be hard to refuel, so the starship NASA launched would have to include return fuel as well that would make a 40-ton fuel requirement. An ion drive would bring the ship from low Earth orbit to 100 diameters and back. Once at the 100 diameter limit of Prometheus, the crew would send the ship into an elliptical orbit, which would make a close pass above Prometheus' atmosphere and then end up back at the 100 diameter limit one orbit later. After several orbits and the planet was thoroughly mapped, the starship would Jump back to Earth's 100 diameter limit, deploy an Orion Capsule to return the crew to Earth's surface. Probably humans would be sent, they would control a surface probe while in the vicinity of Prometheus, since we don't know enough about Alpha Centauri to send a fully automated probe and the time delay would mean NASA couldn't send commands to it, so a human crew would be sent instead.
 
If only Jump Drive is the change...

What is the highest Jump you speak of Tom? Jump 1 only or further?

First, since we do not have any space stations at the termination point of a Jump as yet, our first ships must carry double fuel. You did not mention fuel pumps or skimming technologies.

Second, as a practical limit the highest jump we could use would be 4 because 2 maximum jumps would require 80% of ship volume just to hold the fuel.

Not much would change at first. If nothing else changed, we have to build the infrastructure to build boosters to take ships to the 100 diameter limit. You did not mention fusion power plants or standard thrusters, so we are looking at chemical thrusters and possible fission plants. Aside from the real life issues of fission plants floating in space, rules for those are in High Guard,
 
Design-wise, one can make a TL7 ship with Jump using High Guard. No problem. I point out the "real life" ftactors that impact getting a ship out there in the current scenario.

I am American and as much it would be "cool", we do not have the infrastructure, today, right now, for boosters to send the proposed ship to the 100 diameter limit.

No, I meant people with the no nuke attitude may not like floating "Three Mile Island". Or at least transport of the radiactive material. People would not like an accident where fuel rods being transported to space fall to Earth...
 
Nathan Brazil said:
No, I meant people with the no nuke attitude may not like floating "Three Mile Island". Or at least transport of the radiactive material. People would not like an accident where fuel rods being transported to space fall to Earth...

Not really a concern. It would be done as it is today.
 
The biggest downer is this. Until the infrastructure is built on a remote planet....

Design an exploration craft using our current technology that can go down to an earthlike planet, and take off again to return the explorers without those big fancy boosters and launch gantry and so on.... Gravity is always the enemy...

Everyone is so concerned about getting there. Not as much discussion about what to do once we get there and how do we get back?
 
Nathan Brazil said:
Everyone is so concerned about getting there. Not as much discussion about what to do once we get there and how do we get back?

Hmm, we require a J2 to get to the nearest system. We could first jump in a craft that could skim a GG and has built in refiner. Jump a second manned ship with enough capability to do from space survey of system & planets. Jump back with data and design what is needed and start sending it via one way craft... and voila!
 
Mongoose allows a jump drive prototype at tech level eight. And you could jump twice, since the drive takes up four percent, and jump fuel twenty percent.
 
Condottiere said:
Mongoose allows a jump drive prototype at tech level eight. And you could jump twice, since the drive takes up four percent, and jump fuel twenty percent.


Jumping twice would require 40% for fuel...
 
Condottiere said:
Mongoose allows a jump drive prototype at tech level eight. And you could jump twice, since the drive takes up four percent, and jump fuel twenty percent.

true
 
Somehow a 100 tonner (the only thing able to reach Alpha Centauri) is going to have serious issues with only reaction drives and either chemical or maybe fission power plants. I would say this ship would need orbital facilities for efficient construction if it's going to have fuel for any sort of flight time.
 
Then a phased approach works best, say...

A.Use ordinary rockets to boost all materials (including the manufactured jump ship or pieces thereof ) into orbit.
B.Assemble in orbit.
C.Launch assembled jump ship to the 100d limit
D.Jump
E.Come back later.

How long would it take to get to 800000 miles (100d limit) from orbit at 1g?
 
First, I read about the Alpha Centauri system. No known gas giants and the known planets are very hot meaning no water. There's no hydrogen fuel. With that in mind:

100 ton proto-type
I thought about streamlined configuration and heat shielding necessary for reaction drives but the planets make landing moot so dispersed configuration to save money. Jump 2 engines plus fuel for two jumps. Reaction drive with 34 tons fuel good for 28 days at maximum thrust 2. Fission power plant with one year fuel. Computer Model/1bis with Maneuver/0, Jump Control/2 and Library. Standard electronics. One double occupancy stateroom for a crew of two as this is a prototype mostly testing the jump drive.

It doesn't do much except become the most historical event in modern human history.
 
Nathan Brazil said:
If only Jump Drive is the change...

What is the highest Jump you speak of Tom? Jump 1 only or further?
The Core Rules, which I am using, lists Jump Drives by letter, not Jump Number. Since the smallest Jump Drive I could have is Jump Drive A, that means a 100 ton ship using that drive can jump 2 parsecs. So I'm assuming by the Core Rules that you can have all of them by tech level 10. The fact that it is available at tech level 8.5 is the exception I mentioned. Someone had a Eureka moment and invented the Jump Drive in a moment of inspiration.
First, since we do not have any space stations at the termination point of a Jump as yet, our first ships must carry double fuel. You did not mention fuel pumps or skimming technologies.
NASA has yet to skim a gas giant, it has yet to use any extraterrestrial source of hydrogen. Doesn't mean it couldn't though. Probably the earliest source of hydrogen would come from mining icy bodies in the asteroid belt. Prometheus as 50% hydrographics, but that is at the bottom of a gravitational well almost as deep as Earth's.

Second, as a practical limit the highest jump we could use would be 4 because 2 maximum jumps would require 80% of ship volume just to hold the fuel.

Not much would change at first. If nothing else changed, we have to build the infrastructure to build boosters to take ships to the 100 diameter limit. You did not mention fusion power plants or standard thrusters, so we are looking at chemical thrusters and possible fission plants. Aside from the real life issues of fission plants floating in space, rules for those are in High Guard,
NASA has sent many probes beyond the 100 diameter limit, the only problem is that none of those probes was 100 tons or greater, which is the requirement for Jump Drives. NASA's latest mission to Vesta and Ceres, does use an Ion Drive, such a drive with 30 tons of fuels might get the remaining 100 tons to the 100 diameter limit.
 
Reynard said:
First, I read about the Alpha Centauri system. No known gas giants and the known planets are very hot meaning no water. There's no hydrogen fuel. With that in mind:
The Traveller Map lists a World called Prometheus, the hex it is in indicates that there is at least 1 gas giant. NASA hasn't detected any gas giants orbiting close, so it must be orbiting way out there, and since it is a binary star system, who's stars get as close as 10 AU and go out as far as 40, then the closest gas giant must be at least 3 times the maximum separation of both stars, so we are talking about 120 AU or more. Prometheus is too close in to have ice bearing bodies in space other than itself, but their might be comets and asteroids, NASA would probably have to bring its own return fuel in the early missions.
100 ton proto-type
I thought about streamlined configuration and heat shielding necessary for reaction drives but the planets make landing moot so dispersed configuration to save money. Jump 2 engines plus fuel for two jumps. Reaction drive with 34 tons fuel good for 28 days at maximum thrust 2. Fission power plant with one year fuel. Computer Model/1bis with Maneuver/0, Jump Control/2 and Library. Standard electronics. One double occupancy stateroom for a crew of two as this is a prototype mostly testing the jump drive.

It doesn't do much except become the most historical event in modern human history.
One could plant a colony starting with a small number of people much as Mars One planned to do on Mars. The Cost to get to 100 diameters is about the same as getting to the Moon. A simple Orion Capsule with Jump Drive and fuel tanks attached to equal 100 tons would do.

There could be an organization called "Prometheus One" modeled after Mars One where colonists go on a one way mission. A one way mission to Prometheus is certainly feasible, and it can be done with heat shields, and parachutes, perhaps Orion Capsules could be used. Prior to this NASA could send some probes down to the surface to determine if Humans could survive off of the biosphere. The Probe would consist of two parts, an orbiter and a lander. The lander would transmit its findings to the Orbiter, and then the Orbiter would Jump back to Earth brining the probe's findings back with it. NASA could then refuel the Orbiter with 40 tons of liquid hydrogen and send it back to gather more data from the lander, probably easier just to send another orbiter.

After the data has been gathered an organization similar to Mars One could finance a One-Way Mission using Dragon Boosters from Space X and doing a reality program. Because of the nature of Jump Drives, this reality program wouldn't be live of course. The cost of establishing a colony on Prometheus would be cheaper than a similar one on Mars as the atmosphere of Prometheus is breathable but dense. Colonists might choose to settle high in the mountains, Prometheus' equivalent to Mount Everest, as the atmosphere at that altitude would be Standard. The Colonists would have to learn to grow their food on mountain tops, and perhaps use helicopters to go from mountain to mountain top and grow food on other mountain tops as well. Climbing up and down these mountain sides won't be easy.
 
Nathan Brazil said:
Then a phased approach works best, say...

A.Use ordinary rockets to boost all materials (including the manufactured jump ship or pieces thereof ) into orbit.
B.Assemble in orbit.
C.Launch assembled jump ship to the 100d limit
D.Jump
E.Come back later.

How long would it take to get to 800000 miles (100d limit) from orbit at 1g?
Use the Apollo Missions as your guide, the Apollo Capsule which took three astronauts to Lunar orbit too 3 days to travel that distance, which is about 400,000 km, the 100 diameter limit is a little over 3 times that distance, so at Apollo speeds, the outbound journey would take 9 days. Assume the capsule makes a Jump and is heading towards Prometheus at the same velocity it departed Earth at, so it would take another 9 days to reach Prometheus, probably less than than since Prometheus is smaller than Earth. The Apollo style an Orion Capsule would enter Prometheus' atmosphere with a blaze of glory, once it slowed down sufficiently, it would deploy parachutes similar to the one's of Apollo. These first explorers probably don't want to land on one of Prometheus' oceans as there would be no air craft carrier to recover them, so they would land on land, first by separating from the parachutes a few hundred meters above the surface and then landing softly on the ground using landing rockets of compressed nitrogen to avoid setting any fires on the planet's surface. Four astronaut, 2 men and 2 women would then pop the hatch and do some exploring, as they will be living here for the rest of their lives most likely. NASA could send them some resupplies, it could send a Jump Probe with intermittent communications, but NASA could not get them off that planet's surface and back to Earth, not for the foreseeable future in any case.
 
1) "I'm selling a bridge. Want to buy it?" The original premise "A working Jump drive" doesn't seam likely to occur "tomorrow" because to occur and be proven and not be a pipe dream or theory, a ship with a functioning drive must already exist. I guess we could say it was done in secret? Somehow spending the money and sending all those supplies into space and building a ship and sending it out to the 100d limit to test it without anybody noticing...

2) "How's the weather on the moon today?" We have had the tech for some time to go to the moon. Why are we not sending missions there?

"Those people annoy me, go drop a nuke on them!"

My point is that we've had the tech to do certain things but just because we have the capability does not mean we have to use it.

Other than curiosity and research, what is the motivation to jump somewhere? Will the government fund a NASA jump mission to another star system in this extremely near future premise?

3) What next? You've had an initial series of tests between two nearby points outside the 100d limit. Likely jumping to a point out "in front" of earths orbit so the logistics of recovering the ship are simplified by the earth just orbiting to intercept the jump test ship.

I'd think trips to other systems would not be first on the agenda. Next would be trips within system. Reaching Mars seams to be popular these days.
 
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