What kind of ship uses a Launch as a Lifeboat?

[F33D]

It's probably easier and faster to turn you into a popsicle during an emergency.

At least you get less grumbling from them. :lol:

 

[simonh]

IMHO for many of the ships with sub-craft they make no sense, particularly for streamlined vessels that can land by themselves. For example, the Subsidized Merchant is a streamlined ship and has escape pods already. What exactly is the launch for? That's 10% of the ship's cargo capacity and 14% of it's total cost squandered. Similarly, for the Safari Ship I don't really see what value a launch adds. You'd think a grav vehicle would be more appropriate and useful, and a lot cheaper.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Balfuset790]

I can see the use on the Safari Ship if you're going to a sufficiently wild planet that doesn't have large enough areas of land to bring the whole ship down. And having the ship sitting in the atmoshpere may well 'disturb the animals'... not to mention require more power than jsut putting it in a geostationary orbit.

Maybe the same thing is true of the Subsidised Trader, though I doubt anything but the crummiest Class E starports wouldn't have to room to dock one of those...

 

[AndrewW]

I can see the use on the Safari Ship if you're going to a sufficiently wild planet that doesn't have large enough areas of land to bring the whole ship down. And having the ship sitting in the atmoshpere may well 'disturb the animals'... not to mention require more power than jsut putting it in a geostationary orbit.

Or you may have two different groups of people wanting to go off in different directions.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

I can see the use on the Safari Ship if you're going to a sufficiently wild planet that doesn't have large enough areas of land to bring the whole ship down. And having the ship sitting in the atmoshpere may well 'disturb the animals'... not to mention require more power than jsut putting it in a geostationary orbit.

Or you may have two different groups of people wanting to go off in different directions.

The same could be said for the Fat Trader, passengers and/or some cargo might need to be picked up or delivered to some place other than the starport.

As for emergency use, the aptly named emergency low berths sounds like a good idea to me If they should be mounted in a launch (thus turning it into a life boat) or aboard the ship could be argued back and forth, but having them should be both safer and easier to use than escpae pods, especially for passengers, no?

 

[F33D]

IMHO for many of the ships with sub-craft they make no sense, particularly for streamlined vessels that can land by themselves. For example, the Subsidized Merchant is a streamlined ship and has escape pods already. What exactly is the launch for? That's 10% of the ship's cargo capacity and 14% of it's total cost squandered. Similarly, for the Safari Ship I don't really see what value a launch adds. You'd think a grav vehicle would be more appropriate and useful, and a lot cheaper.

Simon Hibbs

The Subbie is really odd in having a small craft. The purpose of the ship is to move as much cargo as possible to stimulate or facilitate trade. That's a lot of wasted mega-credits.

 

[F33D]

The same could be said for the Fat Trader, passengers and/or some cargo might need to be picked up or delivered to some place other than the starport.

For the amount in MCr that it s costs PLUS the lost cargo revenue for how infrequently it would be used it makes no financial sense.

As for emergency use, the aptly named emergency low berths sounds like a good idea to me If they should be mounted in a launch (thus turning it into a life boat) or aboard the ship could be argued back and forth, but having them should be both safer and easier to use than escpae pods, especially for passengers, no?

ELB's are better suited to REALLY long term emergency use (like misjump into an empty hex). For in-system use by passenger ships, sticking people in emergency vacc suits with a shot of Fast is the best solution for something that statistically speaking, never gets used.

 

[phavoc]

If you are trying to stuff people into a craft in an emergency you'd use Fast drug. Cuts life support usage by 6000%

Fast drug is the best way for short-term evacuation. You could cram far more than normal into a small space while help is dispatched. Cryo works better for the much longer rescue times (like being on the frontier).

Generally speaking though, HOW people are carried really depends on a number of factors. You don't transport paying passengers in a brig. Hell, you wouldn't do that for regular people for long periods because of the deleterious side effects (called riots). And there's the human rights issues too (yeah, they probably still have those in the future too). One could call economy seating on planes a human rights issue....

The same could be said for the Fat Trader, passengers and/or some cargo might need to be picked up or delivered to some place other than the starport.

Yes, I agree that's one option. Another is that the trader in question may remain in orbit and the crew needs to shuttle down to the planet, or even over to the station (or the moon or another station) on an errand or shore leave. It gives great flexibility. If you recall from Space Stations there are now docking arms, which provide no direct personnel contact for a ship. Taking the launch is a way to remain in a shirt-sleeve environment plus it's much easier to bring the groceries back in. I'm sure some starports will have waiting times for docking slots to open up, especially smaller ones. Regularly scheduled ships will have (most like) docks ready for them. Think of it how airports do it today. Planes typically have gates ready for their arrival, but if things get delayed you get delays on getting to the jetways. In the US they frown on dropping you off on the tarmac and getting on a bus, but in other places it's normal (if not the defacto way of boarding). You don't see it as often now, but when the first regional jets showed up boarding or deplaning on the tarmac wasn't unusual. It's still more common at small airports (especially those served by (gasp!!!) prop aircraft).

 

[Jame Rowe]

A ship would have to be in immediate threat of destruction to be abandoned either by small craft or escape pods and the majority of starships will enter and exit a system at the mainworld 100d limit meaning there will, more often than not, be emergency rescue available in a short time. If there is no need to abandon ship, the Emergency Softsuit should be mandatory on all vessels for both crew and passengers. It's vessels that spend time away from a civilized mainworld and somehow expect hazardous conditions would even consider a small craft for lifeboat duty and only if they have a reasonable chance to reach a safe haven in about a week. Might explain why most ships don't bother.

Yes, ships would have Vacc Suit drills rather than Libe Boat drills for passengers. Also, given the almost non-existent % of ships that lose power/M-drives, part of the Star port fees would cover the expense of a Standby System rescue ship.

I would posit that some disasters can't be response to like this.

If only because the ship blew up.

 

[AndrewW]

Think of it how airports do it today. Planes typically have gates ready for their arrival, but if things get delayed you get delays on getting to the jetways. In the US they frown on dropping you off on the tarmac and getting on a bus, but in other places it's normal (if not the defacto way of boarding). You don't see it as often now, but when the first regional jets showed up boarding or deplaning on the tarmac wasn't unusual. It's still more common at small airports (especially those served by (gasp!!!) prop aircraft).

Done the tarmac/bus to the terminal in the US...

I do the walk out of the terminal to the regional jet (or the other way around) a fair bit at US airports (have done this at one of the largest airports in the US even (Denver), not to mention Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Phoenix as well). So it's not just smaller airports.

 

[F33D]

Fast drug is the best way for short-term evacuation. You could cram far more than normal into a small space while help is dispatched. Cryo works better for the much longer rescue times (like being on the frontier).

Fast works well for a couple weeks or less. If you are going to a low tech system with no organic system ships, ELB's are definitely the route to take. Preferably with a nuclear battery that lasts years if needed.

 

[F33D]

I would posit that some disasters can't be response to like this.

If only because the ship blew up.

What disasters are you talking about specifically?

I posit that those types of "disasters" happen FAR less often than jumbo jets falling out of the sky at present (statistically a non-event). And thus, would not produce regs that cost multi mega-credits for each ship to implement... Stars go nova but...

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

The same could be said for the Fat Trader, passengers and/or some cargo might need to be picked up or delivered to some place other than the starport.

Yes, I agree that's one option. Another is that the trader in question may remain in orbit and the crew needs to shuttle down to the planet, or even over to the station (or the moon or another station) on an errand or shore leave. It gives great flexibility. If you recall from Space Stations there are now docking arms, which provide no direct personnel contact for a ship. Taking the launch is a way to remain in a shirt-sleeve environment plus it's much easier to bring the groceries back in. I'm sure some starports will have waiting times for docking slots to open up, especially smaller ones. Regularly scheduled ships will have (most like) docks ready for them.

Definitely agree! There could be waiting times at the port, but small craft welcome, or the ship could be busy at either highport or groundside facility loading/unloading cargo while the launch allows the crew to deliver cargo, taxi passengers or travel for new trade contracts or adventuring - either to other parts of the planet, or even another planet in the same system. Plenty of uses for a launch.

Fast drug is the best way for short-term evacuation. You could cram far more than normal into a small space while help is dispatched. Cryo works better for the much longer rescue times (like being on the frontier).

Fast works well for a couple weeks or less. If you are going to a low tech system with no organic system ships, ELB's are definitely the route to take. Preferably with a nuclear battery that lasts years if needed.

True, if the ship breaks down within a trafficed system, just put everyone in bubbles/suits and possibly give them fast drugs. If no help is on the way rights now, or scheduled but some days away or more, freeze everyone and wait.

 

[Condottiere]

It's probably cheaper to locally rent a runabout than install a boat on a small trading ship.

 

[Jacqual]

It's probably easier and faster to turn you into a popsicle during an emergency.

At least you get less grumbling from them. :lol:

Do not forget that the one guy that has to remain awake then has food for a very long time, if he plays Soccer.

 

[F33D]

It's probably cheaper to locally rent a runabout than install a boat on a small trading ship.

Only by MANY mega credits.

 

[Condottiere]

The advantage is that you can rent one that's more or less the capacity you need, and if you keep a tight itinerary, only for as long as you need.

In less civilized areas, you probably should take along a secondary craft.

 

[F33D]

The advantage is that you can rent one that's more or less the capacity you need, and if you keep a tight itinerary, only for as long as you need.

In less civilized areas, you probably should take along a secondary craft.

Good points

 

[phavoc]

It's probably cheaper to locally rent a runabout than install a boat on a small trading ship.

Only by MANY mega credits.

Assumes that one is available to rent. Since we are talking about subsidized merchants (earlier in thread) they ply their trade off the normal routes. Planets or stations where the Type-R is a big deal aren't going to have lots of secondary craft lying around for rent.

Something I've never seen discussed really much is the idea of a local station taxi/runabout, that comes to ships in parking orbits to pick up small cargo and crew/passengers. It doesn't have to be fast (.5G is sufficient for the local work out to 100km easy). It could even be automated and all a ship has to do is make a call to the station and out it comes. Larger ones might do a circuit of sorts, kind of like an airport shuttle bus, picking up anyone along its route, going to the station, picking up next set, starting over, etc, etc. Would really depend on how many ships might be in parking orbits (which would be a LOT cheaper than docking). I'm sure the busier ports have areas set up for ships to wait for no/low fee's. And space is big enough you could do that easily in even the busiest of ports.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

The iconic launch isn't actually a purpose built 'lifeboat' but, by it's nature, can be used as such. It's very small and therefore easy to add to a ship design. Probably didn't take long for people to say "You know, in an emergency...".

Checking Supplement 2 and 10, I find the a few ships have a range of auxiliary craft while the safari and the hospice ships use launches for reasons other than lifeboat duty. Seems the ship's boat is popular. What I notice is a lot commercial vessel have escape pods.

A ship would have to be in immediate threat of destruction to be abandoned either by small craft or escape pods and the majority of starships will enter and exit a system at the mainworld 100d limit meaning there will, more often than not, be emergency rescue available in a short time. If there is no need to abandon ship, the Emergency Softsuit should be mandatory on all vessels for both crew and passengers. It's vessels that spend time away from a civilized mainworld and somehow expect hazardous conditions would even consider a small craft for lifeboat duty and only if they have a reasonable chance to reach a safe haven in about a week. Might explain why most ships don't bother.

Lets say a Vilani Starship was visiting the Earth on July 20, 1969, it detected the radio signals between Apollo 11, and Mission Control, and then, there was an on board fire as their jump fuel mixed with the air in the engine room and caught fire destroying the maneuver and Jump Drives, most of the crew survived, but they forgot to bring their life boat, They are about a 375,000 kilometers away from Earth, so they signal to Mission Control in Houston, "Help, we've had a catastrophic explosion in our engine compartment, please send help immediately!" Does NASA answer the call? Can they do anything about it in time to save the Vilani crew? I think the Vilani Merchants should have brought their lifeboat, because then they could have landed on Earth themselves!

NASA could send the next Apollo Mission with Three astronauts, the Apollo 12 Crew up to check out the wreckage of the Vilani Starship, it probably would be well worth the expenditure of 1 Saturn V rocket and Apollo capsule to do so, but the Vilani crew would probably be dead by the time they got their, unless they were in their low berths, but then neigther the Apollo astronaut nor the many experts at Mission Control would no how to bring the occupants out of cold sleep, as they have no experience with such technology, and in any case would not be able to read Vilani, so the crew is most likely doomed! tsk tsk tsk, they should have brought that life boat!