What kind of ship uses a Launch as a Lifeboat?

[Tom Kalbfus]

I was reading the Core Rulebook, and in the section of small craft, under Launch it says it is also termed a "life boat" So I am currently designing a ship that uses these launches as life boats. It has 14 "life boats" with 7 "life boats" mounted on each side. They are there in case the passengers and crew need to evacuate the ship. So how big a starship do you think this would be?

 

[F33D]

14 life boats? It would be a very large ship that frequents uninhabited (by a space fairing society) systems. Can't think of any real need for a lifeboat otherwise. Spaceships don't sink after all.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

14 life boats? It would be a very large ship that frequents uninhabited (by a space fairing society) systems. Can't think of any real need for a lifeboat otherwise. Spaceships don't sink after all.

What if the jump fuel leaked and mixed with the oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere in the engine compartment and exploded, destroying the manuever drive, jump drive, and power plant? Without an engine or reactors to power the life support the crew and passengers would have to abandon ship!

 

[F33D]

What if the jump fuel leaked and mixed with the oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere in the engine compartment and exploded, destroying the manuever drive, jump drive, and power plant? Without an engine or reactors to power the life support the crew and passengers would have to abandon ship!

Unless the ship were TL 4, any L-hyd leak would be met with immediate venting (by the computer) of atmosphere in the sealed compartment in which it occurred. Quickly bring the O2 level down to below combustion point.

Remember, these ships have been being designed and improved for thousands of years. They aren't designed by people riding the short bus. Also, even IF somehow the ship were built by idiots and that happened, why would they invest in 14 lifeboats (HUGE cost) rather than a small aux. power plant to power life support until a ship gets to you from the main world?

 

[phavoc]

This is a perennial argument in Traveller. On the one side is "ships in the future will never need lifeboats", and on the other "shit happens in the future, too". Space is deadly and you don't always have the ability to stay on your ship (or worse rescue could be days or weeks away, or not coming anytime). The only space station we have has an escape capsule, repair materials, space suits for the occupants, etc. And still they have a lifeboat. Use your own personal preference and go from there.

A standard launch has 13 tons cargo, which using the normal rule of thumb is 2 seats per 1Dton. If you are configuring them as pure lifeboats you could probably double that number (or more) with a better use of space (stacking vertical bunks could easily cram 6-7 people in, not comfortably, but alive) per ton.

Having that many individual small craft should be for a specific reason, otherwise it seems like an excessive number of small craft to essentially evacuate a compliment of 350. That puts the ship probably in the 5-8k ton range, depending on range and performance (minimum staterooms is 700 tons by itself).

 

[AndrewW]

A standard launch has 13 tons cargo, which using the normal rule of thumb is 2 seats per 1Dton. If you are configuring them as pure lifeboats you could probably double that number (or more) with a better use of space (stacking vertical bunks could easily cram 6-7 people in, not comfortably, but alive) per ton.

Barracks Area would be 10 occupants per ton.
Emergency low berths would be 4 occupants per ton.
Low berths would be 1 occupant per 1/2 ton.
Acceleration couches would be 1 occupant per 1/2 ton.
Stock Barracks would be 20 occupants per 10 tons.
Cabin space would be 1.5 tons per occupant.

 

[F33D]

This is a perennial argument in Traveller. On the one side is "ships in the future will never need lifeboats", and on the other "**** happens in the future, too".

Analogous but FAR less likely than airliners crashing. But, you don't see even parachutes on such craft. Hence, the logic that there won't likely be lifeboats (on starships that travel to/from advanced systems) The argument IS old and, the argument FOR lifeboats always ends up not having a convincing side based on the 3I universe and ships therein.

Unless you would like to make one using Trav data and cost/benefit logic... "Sh*t happens" to jumbo jets too but it isn't a strong enough reason to have ejections seats, parachutes, et al for the passengers when chance for a rescue is microscopic compared to a disabled starship in system.

 

[Condottiere]

Sounds like something a cruise ship or passenger liner might have; this could be due to the environment that it passes through, like a full cruise visiting all the system's planets, and mandatory safety measures.

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

Sounds like something a cruise ship or passenger liner might have; this could be due to the environment that it passes through, like a full cruise visiting all the system's planets, and mandatory safety measures.

My ship is 110 standard 1.5 meter squares long, which makes it 165 meters long, and 44 squares wide, which make it 66 meters wide. Generally there are twice as many squares as dtons, so this deck is 2420 dtons, inside I have a random sprawl of corridors and rooms, some of which are staterooms, some waste space is filled with fuel tanks, I plan on using the space below the deck as a place to store more fuel and cargo. I'm trying to make the floor plans unsymmetrical just to make it interesting. the present idea is the ship is an eccentric noble's plaything. Lets just say this noble's sanity may be in question, but he had a lot of credits to spend, so he spent them. Eventually after I put in all the rooms and corridors, maybe add some interesting things for the PCs to encounter.

A little hint, ever see the movie Avatar? Well this crazy Noble clones the PCs, after drugging them, then places their bodies in these chambers where they control the clones of themselves, so when they wake up, they apparently wake up in the bodies of these clones, see what the clones see, feel what they feel etc. The most obvious clue is they are in 18-year old bodies, and the starship is a sort of dungeon, where the created throws a bunch or robotic and cloned creatures at the PCs, The PCs have a number of lives, and their goal is to find their bodies so they can release them from the telepresence chambers from which the clones are controlled. The crazy Nobel is also an amateur scientist who funds his own research. the whole setup is an elaborate game, that he spends a lot of credits to play.

 

[phavoc]

I plan on using the space below the deck as a place to store more fuel and cargo.

Aircraft have life rafts. Every crewmember and passenger has a personal flotation vest available. Every person has supplemental oxygen available to them. Military aircraft & personnel have parachutes (not all), they have ejector seats, they have life rafts.

Your argument has the same flaw that the arguments against safety features have - it's simply not practical to think an untrained person can handle using a parachute. When it comes to safety regulations the benefit of saving lives outweighs most costs (and grumblings by airlines). We are already seeing additional regulations regarding tracking aircraft, newly proposed rules regarding ejecting black boxes, etc, etc. It's all cost, and none of it will save the life of the people who are gonna die, but it may save future lives. Catastrophic destruction is just that. The idea behind safety equipment is to give people a chance (or, worse, sometimes give them the IDEA that there's a chance, when really they are screwed).

People always argue that ships will "only be 100D away from a world" - except that's not true at all. A star system is HUGE. Travel occurs outside of the primary world. People and goods travel between planets, between stations, and all other points in between. A ship may jump into a system, drop some passengers off at one planet, then travel between destinations in a system before jumping out again. There's all kinds of other things going on that Traveller barely mentions. It's not a bad thing, but it's an aspect of the universe that doesn't get thought of in discussions like this.

I plan on using the space below the deck as a place to store more fuel and cargo. I'm trying to make the floor plans unsymmetrical just to make it interesting. the present idea is the ship is an eccentric noble's plaything. Lets just say this noble's sanity may be in question, but he had a lot of credits to spend, so he spent them. Eventually after I put in all the rooms and corridors, maybe add some interesting things for the PCs to encounter.

A little hint, ever see the movie Avatar? Well this crazy Noble clones the PCs, after drugging them, then places their bodies in these chambers where they control the clones of themselves, so when they wake up, they apparently wake up in the bodies of these clones, see what the clones see, feel what they feel etc. The most obvious clue is they are in 18-year old bodies, and the starship is a sort of dungeon, where the created throws a bunch or robotic and cloned creatures at the PCs, The PCs have a number of lives, and their goal is to find their bodies so they can release them from the telepresence chambers from which the clones are controlled. The crazy Nobel is also an amateur scientist who funds his own research. the whole setup is an elaborate game, that he spends a lot of credits to play.

Not sure what I can offer in regards to the plot line, but as far as your ship goes, remember to think in all three dimensions. "Below Deck" is a nautical concept. Spaceships still have decks, and you'd probably align them in a similar fashion. And spaceships still need to follow some naval architectural rules (big open spaces aren't common since you have to worry about vacuum).

If you want some bizarre ideas regarding layout, look up the Winchester House in California. It's as bizarre as they come and you can probably steal a few ideas from there that will help you with your ship.

 

[Condottiere]

Airliners are fighting gravity, and when they stop, they tend to drop like a stone.

Ships tend to sink when they lose buoyancy.

Spaceships should have both the time to react to a catastrophic failure that would force the evacuation of the vessel, and the space to store the lifeboats.

Lifeboats, would most probably be equipped with emergency low berths, if the onboard commander feels that the time that rescue will arrive would exceed the capability of the boat to support life onboard.

I''m not taking a position here one way or another. If you're not crashing or breaking up, the chances are that holing up in a secure section would be the best option. And if you are going to crash or the ship is about to break up, then you should have time to evacuate the people onboard to the lifeboats.

 

[Graey]

Barracks Area would be 10 occupants per ton.
Emergency low berths would be 4 occupants per ton.
Low berths would be 1 occupant per 1/2 ton.
Acceleration couches would be 1 occupant per 1/2 ton.
Stock Barracks would be 20 occupants per 10 tons.
Cabin space would be 1.5 tons per occupant.

Where do the Barracks Area at 10 men per ton and the Acceleration Couch at 1 per half ton come from? I think I've found the rest.

 

[simonh]

I can imagien a few situations in which a life boat might be useful:

* Accidents while wilderness re-fueling. Not all ships travel only through systems with advanced starports and refined fuel available. An accident while gas giant refueling particularly must be pretty scary.

* Some mainworlds are inside the jump shadow of their star, so you can't guarantee you'll always be within 100D of a planet, and even if you are the planet may not have the technology or infrastructure to help you.

* If pirates take a fancy to your ship and it's cargo, they may be too busy with those to chase after a lifeboat.

So I think lifeboats have their place. I think you'd want more than 1 week of operation though, as it could take several weeks before a rescuer came along, but that also means more than 1 week of supplies for the occupants. The standard ship's boat design would need a bit of re-working to make a practical lifeboat.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Reynard]

The iconic launch isn't actually a purpose built 'lifeboat' but, by it's nature, can be used as such. It's very small and therefore easy to add to a ship design. Probably didn't take long for people to say "You know, in an emergency...".

Checking Supplement 2 and 10, I find the a few ships have a range of auxiliary craft while the safari and the hospice ships use launches for reasons other than lifeboat duty. Seems the ship's boat is popular. What I notice is a lot commercial vessel have escape pods.

A ship would have to be in immediate threat of destruction to be abandoned either by small craft or escape pods and the majority of starships will enter and exit a system at the mainworld 100d limit meaning there will, more often than not, be emergency rescue available in a short time. If there is no need to abandon ship, the Emergency Softsuit should be mandatory on all vessels for both crew and passengers. It's vessels that spend time away from a civilized mainworld and somehow expect hazardous conditions would even consider a small craft for lifeboat duty and only if they have a reasonable chance to reach a safe haven in about a week. Might explain why most ships don't bother.

 

[Jeraa]

Barracks Area would be 10 occupants per ton.
Emergency low berths would be 4 occupants per ton.
Low berths would be 1 occupant per 1/2 ton.
Acceleration couches would be 1 occupant per 1/2 ton.
Stock Barracks would be 20 occupants per 10 tons.
Cabin space would be 1.5 tons per occupant.

Where do the Barracks Area at 10 men per ton and the Acceleration Couch at 1 per half ton come from? I think I've found the rest.

Only barracks I know of in MgT (in addition to the stock barracks) is in High Guard - and it is 1 person per 2 tons, not 10 people per ton.

Not sure about the acceleration couch, but the Darrians book has an acceleration bench that holds 6 people per ton. I know in other version of Traveller there are 0.5 ton acceleration couches.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

Acceleration couches are in high guard errata:

Page 61
Add the following to Cabin Space;
A small craft may have acceleration couches for short duration passengers (such as for surface-to-orbit voyages). These take up 0.5 tons and cost MCr 0.03 each.

 

[Condottiere]

Brig - four tons holds six to twelve prisoners with six fold down slabs and a curtained refresher.

Going by stock barracks, half a ton per person includes the requisite air scrubbers.

 

[F33D]

A ship would have to be in immediate threat of destruction to be abandoned either by small craft or escape pods and the majority of starships will enter and exit a system at the mainworld 100d limit meaning there will, more often than not, be emergency rescue available in a short time. If there is no need to abandon ship, the Emergency Softsuit should be mandatory on all vessels for both crew and passengers. It's vessels that spend time away from a civilized mainworld and somehow expect hazardous conditions would even consider a small craft for lifeboat duty and only if they have a reasonable chance to reach a safe haven in about a week. Might explain why most ships don't bother.

Yes, ships would have Vacc Suit drills rather than Libe Boat drills for passengers. Also, given the almost non-existent % of ships that lose power/M-drives, part of the Star port fees would cover the expense of a Standby System rescue ship.

 

[F33D]

Brig - four tons holds six to twelve prisoners with six fold down slabs and a curtained refresher.

Going by stock barracks, half a ton per person includes the requisite air scrubbers.

If you are trying to stuff people into a craft in an emergency you'd use Fast drug. Cuts life support usage by 6000%

 

[Condottiere]

It's probably easier and faster to turn you into a popsicle during an emergency.