What if Mongoose Licenced D&D?

[Shadow4ce]

I remember talking to a guy who was running a 3.5 game near here. All the guy talked about were stats and character gen. Now I like character generation too, but the whole preoccupation of what your stats were was what got me. The guy could not tell me anything about any of the characters that did not come from a table. And the min/maxing was horrible.
Yes, I am an old fogey, but it is ROLEplaying games. Not ROLLplaying games.

You are not enough of an old fogey, then. D&D starts as an extension to Chainmail, a minis game.

Hack-n-slash seems to have been the Gygaxian norm through the mid 80's and beyond, treating dungeons almost as a board-less board games.

You ever sit at a table where Gygax was the DM? Speak no ill of the dead, as none of us ever know for surety when we'll be there beside them, hehe.

Anyway, you are correct about D&D's origins, but Gygax was, from all accounts I've heard/read (I never sat around the table with him either), very good at ROLEplaying, and despised ROLLplayers. I believe this was the big come-apart and the downfall of TSR back in the day, iirc.

For me personally, the most innovative, memorable, and fun modules (what we now call adventures) were from the mid-80s, and they definitely required ROLEplaying to complete without serious casualties to the adventuring parties. Tomb of Horrors anyone? White Plume Mountain? A series, B series, G series, D series, Q1? All vivid memories of well ROLEplayed modules, and the most fun I ever had with an RPG. I'd love to see a return to "Old School" regardless of who the publisher is!

- Proud Old Fogey, avid D&D player since January, 1976, and a man who played chainmail back in the day as well. :wink:

 

[Tankdriver]

Well, I am a transplant ex-pat here in Germany. I originally from Waukegan, IL near the Wisconsin border and not too far from Lake Geneva. The owner of my old LGS is a guy named Bob Bigelow. He often told me of how he gamed with Gygax, went to all the early Gencons when they were in Lake Geneva (they even bought an old school bus to take the shop's club up to the con) and such. Always spoke very highly of Gygax. I tried to get him to introduce me to him, but it never panned out. Not even after my aborted effort to get hired on to FASA just before the job and the company both went away.

But the story I heard was Gygax was all about roleplaying in his games. A clue to that effect, Bob learned the GM craft in those games. The last game I played with Bob, every player was loaded down with various 1E and 2E books, but Bob had nothing but a GM screen. I don't know how many times he rolled anything outside of combat, but it was not often at all.

That was a good time.

 

[AKAramis]

Speak ill of the dead?

Sorry, the dead get no free pass. Gygax defended the roll-players in print. having read SR, and Dragon 1-250, Gygax supported the miniatures-wargame mode of play often and boldly. He also supported putting in puzzles the characters should NEVER have been able to figure out, but that the players could. Nor did his articles support allowing for clues to be given based upon character stats.

The improvisational acting sans-system-mechanics style of non-combat doesn't work for my players, and doesn't work well for me, and by not having any ratings, it also does not provide hooks for the novice to develop the character.

And further, it is quite possible to play White Plume Mountain with no role-play at all, and few casualties, simply by applying player knowledge ruthlessly. For every Old-School group I've met doing character-driven stuff, I've met two who were all about KTAATTS... (Kill them all and take their stuff.)

And both are valid ways to play, and neither is how I run.

 

[Shipmonkey]

That and the fact that the price of GW miniatures is getting ridiculous and the constant revisions are a pain. Since they introduced 3E for 40K, there have been three Codex: Space Marine books, not including the chapter specific stuff.

Three Space Marine Codexes? When? They released one right after 3rd and one right after 4th. When was the third?

 

[Gorfinger]

Hmmm as for best early encounters all I have to say is one name.... Baba Jaga! What a pain in the butt lol BUT very fun. Though I would have to say my first real rememberable moment of roleplaying *outside of Rifts* was about ten years ago *I was 11* and I played a dwarf warrior in 2nd edition and I was baseball batting Stirges away from our supply wagon and made a bad swipe cutting off a wheel of the cart carrying all of our stuff. Then I had to explain how it wasn’t my fault that humans made shoddy wagons! I love role-playing.

 

[Halfbat]

I'm not so sure D&D4e will be a flop. In fact, it will probably be a roaring success.

If you are really against D&D, though, I'm pretty sure 4e won't change your mind. It's still D&D and still works best in the combat-focussed 'dungeon' environment. I know, some peeps are very wrapped in 3.5, and I'm sure some will keep on with it with Paizo's Pathfinder...

...but...

4e is smoother than 3.5, gives more combat options but gets rid of a lot of record keeping. And it's still D&D. If you like or love D&D I'm pretty sure that you'll like 4e more. And for someone who finds 3.5 too messy, they may even enjoy 4e enough to return to D&D.

 

[Tankdriver]

On the Off-Topic board I put up a thread about gaming memories. Anyone who wants to retell some of the past moments of glory go ahead. I would love to read them. And do'nt get me started on Rifts. My first and to date only experience will go down as one of my finest and shortest perfomances in role-playing ever.

So the Battle For Maccrage and the new book officially constitute Fourth Edition 40K, huh? I am pretty sure there was one between the initial third edition codex for the space marines and one the most recent.

Well, my info on Gygax came from someone who knew him but may not have been complete. I could be wrong there. And I know of a fair amount of old-school guys who go on treasure raids more than adventures too.

Finally, back on topic, if Mongoose got the license I think that, with the fact Mongoose got started doing D20 suppliments, a lot of it would be d20ish. I would like to think they would bring back a bit of the old-school flavor.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Finally, back on topic, if Mongoose got the license I think that, with the fact Mongoose got started doing D20 suppliments, a lot of it would be d20ish. I would like to think they would bring back a bit of the old-school flavor.

While I would imagine they would be seriously tempted to be more d20-ish, I'd hope they'd do like Traveller and bring it back to its roots.

 

[El Cid]

I've been playing D&D since 1970.

I played the demo of 4.0 at Coastcon and had fun with the combats.

The ROLE playing really doesn't need rules if you really ROLE play so changing to 4.0 shouldn't be a problem.

I'm purchasing H-1 to see how that looks and have my order in for the 3 basic books.

I won't know how well the system works until I've been able to test drive it at higher levels.

I felt that the Epic levels of 3.5 were broaken espically the magic system.

We'll see how the system is accepted in the next few months.

Sidney

 

[Cryo921]

I would really like to here the guys at mongoose's comments on this subject. any of you guys from mongoose care to comment?
as for my own opinions: i would have to say that sounds interesting. I have found the current form of character generation in the d20products too annoying and long and maybe mongoose would fix that. I'm assuming the 4th edition of D&D will probably be something like the new star wars rpg they just released. If so it does cut down on the character creation time a bit.
Probably will never happen though.

 

[El Cid]

Piazo is trying to modify 3.5 and they have a test rules set up for free on their web site.

I don't see how Mongoose (and I believe if any company could do D&D better, they could) would find it profitable to redo 3.5 D20.

But, that's just my opinion.

Sidney

 

[-Daniel-]

I have to say this has been quite an interesting thread.

I am glad Mongoose does nto have D&D and they spend their energy doing the games they do.

Just my Opinion of course.

Daniel

 

[Harlock]

I don't think 4ed will be a flop, just unrecognizable to old style gamers like me. I started with 1st ed and the '83 box sets. Though I can't say if I'll be buying it or not. I haven't bought any D&D stuff since 1st ed other than some adventures & magazines. These days conan is more my thing.

 

[Flynn]

I have to say this has been quite an interesting thread.

I am glad Mongoose does nto have D&D and they spend their energy doing the games they do.

Just my Opinion of course.

Daniel

Quoted For Truth.

I agree with you 100%. If Mongoose had D&D, then they wouldn't really have time to invest in the other systems that we all have come to know and love.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[-Daniel-]

I don't think 4ed will be a flop, just unrecognizable to old style gamers like me. I started with 1st ed and the '83 box sets. Though I can't say if I'll be buying it or not. I haven't bought any D&D stuff since 1st ed other than some adventures & magazines. These days conan is more my thing.

This is how I felt when I came back to RPGs and bought 3rd edition. I had played D&D (not AD&D) so when I came back and bought 3rd ed I saw it as a new game for the most part.

Not that it is a bad thing to see it as a new game, had lots of fun with 3rd. But it meant learning everything from scratch and almost none of my old memories of rules were of any use.

Daniel

 

[Chernobyl]

I am seriuosly considering buying the second edition of 40K again and sticking with that.

Still have my dark millenium box! 8)

Chern

 

[Faënril]

What will be the consequences for Babylon 5 OGL (and other OGL games) with the inception of the 4th edition licence ?

 

[master of reality]

I'm not buying any Dungeons & Dragons stuff. When I discovered RuneQuest in high school, I gave away all my Advanced D&D books and never played D&D again. I'll continue to buy Mongoose RuneQuest stuff, and I might take the plunge on Traveller. D&D? Not for me.

 

[Swampy]

What will be the consequences for Babylon 5 OGL (and other OGL games) with the inception of the 4th edition licence ?

It shouldn't effect it in any way, the OGL that Mongoose uses for B5 can't be revoked. So B5 books could be produced for as long as it remains profitable.