What can you do when ENTERING form hyperspace?

[DK]

I guess the short version is do you need to use initiate jump point on the turn you enter realspace to or just to turn you form the jump point? Or in other words how long dos a jump point stay open.

If you must use initiate jump point on the turn you enter to, then you can't shoot and only moves ½spd. Wich goes against what it says in the "entering realspace" part of the hyper space section.

I realy whant to come out of hyperspace with guns blazing

 

[H]

has this all been removed from the rules?
you can't come through your OWN juimp point on the turn it is formed, unless otherwise stated, eg i think Lumati can. other ships however can use a jump point the turn it is formed, eg omega opens jump point, IT can't come through yet, but 2 Novas it was escorting could. this is because you perform special actions in theory at least, after movement.

you can only move half speed and not fire with jump engines, with advanced jump engines i think you can do what the heck you like.

of course, conveniently, I don't have my rules on me today, unlike every other day this week, doh... and am working of very shakey memory

 

[DK]

has this all been removed from the rules?
you can't come through your OWN juimp point on the turn it is formed, unless otherwise stated, eg i think Lumati can. other ships however can use a jump point the turn it is formed, eg omega opens jump point, IT can't come through yet, but 2 Novas it was escorting could. this is because you perform special actions in theory at least, after movement.

you can only move half speed and not fire with jump engines, with advanced jump engines i think you can do what the heck you like.

No one can come through a jump point the turn it is created, it is in the FAQ.

Special actions is preformed before you move, that is in the SA part of the rules.

Jump Vs. advance jump engines - Advance jump engine just states that a ship may act normal instead of not being able to turn, lunch fighters or use special actions.

In answer to my own question, after reading the rules over and over again. I will say that a jump point is open until the ship that made it moves, what ever it goes through or not, and that it must only use the SA again if it wants it to be open for another turn.
So;
With normal jump engine: a ship that opens a jump point must wait till the next turn to go through and when it dos it can't turn, lunch fighters or use sa's, wich means it can fly in a stright line up to full speed and fire all weapons if there is a scout on the tabel.
a ship that goes through a jump point created by another ship can move up to full move and turn and use sa and attack with all weapons if a scout is on tabel.

With advance jump engine: a ship that creates a jump point must waite a turn and can then go through it and can then move up to full speed and turn and shoot all weapons and use sa's or lunch fighters.

 

[H]

good man answering your own questions

although, the no ships using JP at all bit is something we never played up here, even in some tourneys, whoops

 

[Democratus]

I'm a little unclear on how many SAs are needed for a ship to go from realspace to hyperspace. Here's how I read it.

Turn x: Use Special Action to open Jump Point
Turn x+1: Use special Action to keep Jump Point open, move into jump point.

Is this correct in that you have to use the Special Action twice before making it through the Jump Point. The reason I ask is that in a few battles I've opened a jump point and then lost my Jump Engines property before I could move in the next turn. By the above sequence, the jump point will close on the second turn because the special order wasn't given a second time.

Thanks!

 

[H]

irrespective of special orders, if the jump engine holding the jump point is killed, the jump point collapses.

if you get a no SA crit, the jump point collapses.

a ship that looses its jump engines trait, can still use another ships jump point, as no SA is needed to fly into it.

 

[Democratus]

That makes sense.

Am I also correct in the assumption that the ship must give a minimum of 2 Open Jump Point! special orders to leave the map?

 

[DK]

I can't get a clear answer from the tekst. It seems to indicate that you don't but strict reading of the SA rules leeds to belive that you do.

 

[DK]

Reading in the "rulesmasters" and the book. I will say that the way to read it is, that the jump point i created "on top" of the ship and that when the ship activates you have to decide if you want it, the ship not the jump point, to be in hyperspace or real space.
If you decide to stay in hyperspace you must use initiate jump point to keep it open or it will collapse.
If you decide to be in real space you move from the jump point and it will then collapse and you will be under the restrictions from entering real space.

 

[Greg Smith]

I'm a little unclear on how many SAs are needed for a ship to go from realspace to hyperspace. Here's how I read it.

Turn x: Use Special Action to open Jump Point
Turn x+1: Use special Action to keep Jump Point open, move into jump point.

Is this correct in that you have to use the Special Action twice before making it through the Jump Point.

That is correct. It isn't explicit in the text, but that is how it works.

 

[lastbesthope]

IIRC there is also a limit on how long you can keep a Jump Point Open as well.

LBH

 

[AdrianH]

My understanding is that if you declare "Initiate jump point", it opens (or keeps open) the jump point at the end of this turn; unless you do it again, it will close at the end of the next turn. So if you plan to move everything through next turn, you won't need a second "Initiate jump point".

The reasons I believe this are that you can't use the jump point the same turn it is created (because it isn't open during the movement phase); it closes at the end of the third turn after it was created, assuming it has been maintained that long; and that the rules specifically say you can't declare another special action while moving through a jump point, which wouldn't be necessary if you already had to declare a special action to keep it open during the movement phase. The rules are consistent if "Initiate jump point" opens (or maintains) the jump point at the end of this turn and the jump point remains open until the end of the next turn. So:
Turn x: ship declares "Initiate jump point".
Turn x+1: jump point is now fully open, ships can go through. The jump point will close at the end of the turn unless the ship which formed it declares "Initiate jump point" again, in which case...
Turn x+2: the ship can declare "Initiate jump point" once more, and then...
Turn x+3: if it has not already closed for any reason, the jump point will close at the end of this turn. This is unavoidable.

And, as has been stated, if the ship which created the jump point goes through, loses its jump engine to a critical hit or being crippled, or is destroyed, then the jump point collapses at once.

 

[lastbesthope]

My understanding is that if you declare "Initiate jump point", it opens (or keeps open) the jump point at the end of this turn; unless you do it again, it will close at the end of the next turn. So if you plan to move everything through next turn, you won't need a second "Initiate jump point".

It is my understanding that you do need to use the jump point SA a second time, but I could be wrong I suppose.

LBH

 

[Iain McGhee]

Sort of inbetween the two interpretations. If your ship(s) move through on the turn after you declared the IJP SA, you don't need to have the ship that opened the Jump Point declare a second IJP SA, unless you intend to keep the point open for another turn or two. If the ship that opened the point initially comes through the point closes and the ship is prevented from performing an SA that turn (i.e. the IJP action from the last turn is still in effect until the ship enters realspace, the ship is effectively continuing the SA but does not need to declare a new one). If you had to declare a new IJP SA on the turn you entered, that would prevent ships with advanced jump engines from launching fighters or using other SAs when they enter realspace.

 

[lastbesthope]

Rules say JP can be kept open for 3 turns so long as the ship keeps using the SA so I read that as needing to do the SA for each urn the JP is open.

LBH

 

[Democratus]

Yep. Agreed. There's nothing in the "Entering Hyperspace" rules about a jump point staying open to the end of the turn. You must give the Initiate Jump Point! order every turn.

This means you must give the order on the initial turn. Then you must give it again on the second turn or it will go away. During this second turn you can move through it if you wish.

Strange, but true.

 

[AdrianH]

From the rules, p.26, "Entering Realspace":

All ships must leave the jump point from its forward arc. Moving from hyperspace to realspace in this way demands a great deal of energy and so a ship creating a jump point may not turn, launch fighters or use any Special Actions in the same turn.

It does not say "any Special Actions except Initiate Jump Point". Which means if the ship must use Initiate Jump Point to keep the jump point open during the second turn, then the ship which formed the jump point can not go through its own jump point.

The rules for entering hyperspace may be different. But since the rules for entering realspace contain pretty much the same sentence, "This jump point may be held open for up to three turns, so long as the ship continues to use the Initiate Jump Point! Special Action", I'd conclude that the rules are the same whichever way the jump point is going.

 

[Burger]

Ah, that old chestnut. By the rules as written, it is not possible to enter realspace at all since you need to use the IJP SA and therefore cannot move through the JP that turn. I seem to remember this one, and its solution, from 1st edition :lol:

• Special actions are declared at the start of a ship's movement phase.
• To hold the jump point open in the turn you wish to move through it, you do need to declare the "Initiate jump point" special action at the start of your movement (ie before you move through the JP).
• The rule you quoted means you cannot be performing an SA when you move through the jump point, therefore the SA is dropped, hence the jump point closes behind you.

Yeah I know the wording "in the same turn" kind of messes this up since you already did declare an SA in the same turn... but this is the explaination given by Matt a long time ago and the logic is sound if you ignore this one little facet :wink:

 

[AdrianH]

Page 27, "Jump Gates":

Any ship within 8" of a jump gate may activate it and prepare to enter hyperspace by using the Initiate Jump Point! Special Action, regardless of whether it has the Jump Engine or Advanced Jump Engine trait. While attempting this Special Action, the ship may not fire any weapons and must move between 0 and half its speed. If the jump gate is friendly or neutral, the attempt is automatic.

Does this mean that the ship uses Activate Jump Gate! one turn, then Initiate Jump Point! the next turn in order to actually go through the jump point? If so, which of the two special actions is bound by the conditions of no firing and only half speed movement?

I'd always thought the conditions applied to Activate Jump Gate. But then I'd always thought that once a jump point was open, no further special action was needed to go through, and "Initiate Jump Point!" in the above was just an error. Besides, applying those conditions to Activate Jump Gate makes no sense. A ship using Initiate Jump Point needs all its power for the jump engine; a ship using a jump gate does not, since the jump gate provides the power, which is why a ship without a jump engine - or even a fighter - can activate a jump gate.