What about languages?

[Jegergryte]

Now, this, this is something I use to skip, unless they travel a lot, but now, with my players present, they want to know, and they come from quite a variety of places... so, what about languages in Glorantha... One is a Kraloreli noble run-away (with some girl with him, bad idea), one is a pirate, we think of a small time pirate band along the waters of Felster Lake (we play in the Safelster area) and the rivers around there (yadiya, whatever, pirate-gone-mercenary anyways) the last one is a shaman of some tribe, possibly Orlanthi... now, these need to be able to communicate. Is there something along the lines of an All Tongue Languages (Common, or trade language if you will)?
Is language covered somewhere at all? more in-depth than the cultural background at character creation (and some professions)?

 

[Cleombrotus]

Glorantha has Tradetalk. This is a magical language tied to the Communication Rune and is a gift from the God Issaries, who learned these tricks from his journeys before Time when he acted as an emissary between seperated tribes trading secrets and information and gossip.

However, it's supposed to be a limited language which can communicate basic and generic ideas and terms rather than subtleties and innuendos. This makes it problematic when it comes to roleplaying. It's a common language but it's not "Common" in the D&D sense.

The Runequest language rules as they have been written in the past are realistic but harsh. It was always an issue for player characters from southern and northern Sartar, for example, who didn't even share a common language family.

So, either you fudge it, and dish out multiple language skills and justify it by background. For example your pirate has encountered multiple languages in his travels and he is the hub for party communication. Or you play it strictly you have to deal with the limitations of low communication skills. If you run RQ with multiple cultures you will always have to fudge it to some extent.

I go for the strict approach with some mitigation. If you can't speak it then tough, but I let characters speak related languages at 50% of skill rather than 10%. You have to be careful about this since several cults have Speak ....... as a cult skill.

Apart from that I can't think of any useful advice. Either treat it as a natural challenge and force players to learn languages. I like this approach. Or fudge your way around it: it can be a pain in the arse.

 

[Jegergryte]

Ok, thanks, useful and nice, what I then would like to have, because I like it the harsh way too, is a list of languages... as I can’t find it in the setting book... of course I can presume that most cultures have different languages, but I find the book lacking information about cultures belonging to countries/areas, it is there, but not in an informative way, in other words: it’s not laid out on a table in a nice and orderly fashion, which groups cultures, nations/city states with languages and language groups. Is there perhaps a book where this is present?

I find it for example hard to find where Orlanthi resides, where borders go, what languages are spoken where...

For to night, I’ll just fudge it... but I’d like to get more info, so that I can expand on this...

 

[Cleombrotus]

I do languages like this - it's third age, so apologies for any irrelevance.
A Sartarite character from southern Sartar speaks Sartarite as their native tongue. That will be at INTx5 for starters. Since Sartarite is descended from Stormspeech, they get that at half their Speak Sartarite. If they go to Pavis where Pavic is spoken, which is a combination of Old Pavic, Sartarite and Praxian they get that at half their Sartarite, and (and here's a fudge) I give them Praxian and Old Pavic at half their Pavic. So, INT 12 gives Speak Sartarite 60, Speak Pavic and Stormspeech 30 and speak Praxian and Old Pavic 15. From the moment a number is written on a character sheet it develops independantly.
This means that by today's standards characters in my games are excessively multilingual and I'm dishing out free skills. But who cares?

I like language in rpg, stranger in a strange land and all that, but I don't want to stand in the way of communication. I judge it harshly - if you don't make your roll, you don't know what's being said regardless of consequences. I doubt that most Lunars would bother to speak Sartarite even if they knew it, so I have to deal with inability to communicate on a regular basis. But it works for me. It makes players value linguistic skill.

 

[elgrin]

My take on this is that you can generally communicate anything with about 25% of a 'talk skill' if you have long enough to converse. To pass concepts when under presure, like in combat, then it requires the PC to have invested skill points in a common language (normally Tradetalk) with the other PC, and making that skill in a roll.
Another thing is actually getting someone's attention during melee: ever considered getting players to make a Perception (or similar) roll to see if the PC catches the attention of someone when they are both up to their eyeballs in EWF's trying to do nasty things to them with lethal weaponry?

elgrin

 

[Slytovhand]

Earlier editions has general communication skills without rolls at 30%, which sort of mirrors up with MRQ in that 50% is the level where someone has writtten skills. from there, it just allows for more technical or formal speech patterns.

We always played that everyone had TradeTalk, and it pretty much communicated everything... but that's taking the easy option After that, a person needed the specific language.

 

[soltakss]

In Second Age Glorantha, Tradetalk is being pushed by the Jrusteli as a common language. A lot of people speak various related Western tongues and can read/write Western.

Elsewhere it's more complicated. Dara Happans speak Pelorian, a lot of people from the EWF speak some kind of Theyalan language, most of which are related, Carmanians speak a Western language, Kralori speak Kralori and everyone else are barbarians.

I'd give all the PCs Tradetalk as a second language, for convenience rather than anything else.

We had a party once where two of the PCs couldn't communicate and other PCs had to translate for them. It was difficult so they both learned a common language. Perhaps you can have this as an in-game thing where everyone speaks really bad pidgin unril their characters learn a common language.

 

[Rasta]

I found an interesting article on this.

Arbennan
Family of languages spoken by the Agimori of Pamaltela :

Doraddik : spoken by the Doraddi of Kothar and Zamokil
Kresh : spoken by the Kresh
Arbennan : spoken by the Doraddi of Jolar
Tarint : spoken by the primitive humans of Tarien

Artmali
Family of languages spoken by the blue-skinned natives of Zamokil :

Veldang : this is the only major Artmali language

Maslo
Family of languages spoken by the people of the Elf Coasts :

Elamlanni : series of very similar languages spoken on the Elamle peninsula
Kimotian : spoken in Kimos
Kumankan : spoken by the natives of Kumanku
Onlaksian : spoken in Onlaks
Thinokan : spoken in Thinoko

Fonritian
Family of languages spoken by in the peninsula of Fonrit :

Afadjanni : spoken in Afaddjann
Banamban : spoken along the coast of Banamba
Kareeshtan : spoken in Golden Kareeshtu
Mondoran : spoken in the interior of Fonrit

Hsunchen
Family of languages (sometimes very different) spoken by the Hsunchen people :

Basmoli : spoken by Basmoli tribes
Telmori : spoken by Telmori tribes

Pelorian
Family of languages spoken in lowland Peloria :

Balazaring : spoken in Balazar and the Elder Wilds
Dara Happan : cult language of the solar religions of Peloria (Note : this language is close to the non-human language of Firespeech)
Jarstic : spoken by the barbarian tribes of Jarst
New Pelorian (also known as Lunarite) : official language of the Lunar Empire and also spoken along the Oslir river valley Probably doesn't exsist in 2nd Age
Pelorian Farmer Languages : similar languages spoken in Worian, Arir, Kostaddi and other lowland Peloria places

Pentan
Family of languages spoken by the horse barbarian of Pent, including Horse Barbarian

Praxian
Only one major language, Praxian, spoken by the Beast Riders of the Wastes and the nomads of the Hungry Plateau in Peloria

Teshnan
Family of languages spoken in the jungled southeast corner of Genertela

High Teshnan : official speech of the Kingdom of Teshnos
Melibic (also known as Low Teshnan) : spoken on the isle of Melib
Trowjang : spoken by the amazons of Trowjang


Theyalan
Family of dialects spoken mainly by the Orlanthi barbarians :

Fronelan dialects : spoken in Fronela, and including Junoran, Syanoran and Oranoran
Pelorian dialects : spoken in Peloria, and including Tarshite and a variant of Pentan
Ralian dialects : spoken in Ralios
Umathelan dialects : spoken in Umathela
Manirian dialects : spoken in Maniria, and including Sartarite, Esrolian, Caladran, Ditali and Solanthi
Pavic : specific language in the city of Pavis, originated from the Old Pavic and including Sartarite language

(Note : the non-human languages of Tusk Rider and Stormspeech are considered to be also Theyalan languages)

Vithelan
Family of languages spoken in Gloranthan Far East :

Imperial : spoken in Vormain
Kralori : spoken in the Kralori Empire
Stultan : spoken in the Kingdom of Ignorance
Tanyen : major language spoken in the East Isles
Suderian : other language spoken in the East Isles

Western
Family of languages spoken by the Malkioni worshippers of Umathela and Western Generthela :

Brithini : spoken by the Brithini
Carmanian : spoken in Carmania
Loskalmi : spoken in the Kingdom of Loskalm
Ralian (also known as Safelstran) : spoken in the kindoms and duchies of Safelster and Ralios
Seshnegi : spoken in the Kingdom of Tanisor
Vadeli : spoken by the Vadeli
Waertag : spoken by the Waertagi navigators, all over the seas

Miscellaneous non-related other human languages

Grazelander (also known as Pure Horse Tongue) : spoken in the Grazelands
Janubian : spoken along the Janube river valley
Trade Talk : originally spoken by Issaries cultists, this language is also known by other merchants
Jrusteli : spoken in Jrustela
Old Pavic : very old tongue generally used for ceremonies in Adari and in the old Empire of the Wyrms Friends (Note : this language is close to the non-human language of Auld Wyrmish)
Thieves' Argot : street language used by thieves guilds
Bilini : spoken in Dorastor

Source: http://karamo.nexenservices.com/glowar/language.htm

 

[Jegergryte]

Would this list, or parts of this list, apply or be compatible with 2nd Age Glorantha?
Something like that list would be nice to have for the 2nd Age anyways, could someone help out here? My knowledge of this setting is limited at best, I've already portrayed the Uz completely contrary to what the setting book says (more like warcraft 2 and 3 trolls, voicewise anyways), but hey, artistic freedom, anywho, languages, thats what this book needs, or this thread, or at least this (me) GM.
Can anyone help?

 

[Rasta]

Would this list, or parts of this list, apply or be compatible with 2nd Age Glorantha?

Yes.

Something like that list would be nice to have for the 2nd Age anyways, could someone help out here?

Besides the Lunar language, which languages do you feel don't apply to 2nd Age?

My knowledge of this setting is limited at best, I've already portrayed the Uz completely contrary to what the setting book says (more like warcraft 2 and 3 trolls, voicewise anyways), but hey, artistic freedom, anywho, languages, thats what this book needs, or this thread, or at least this (me) GM.
Can anyone help?

What would you like help with?

 

[Jegergryte]

Would this list, or parts of this list, apply or be compatible with 2nd Age Glorantha?

Yes.

What parts then?

Something like that list would be nice to have for the 2nd Age anyways, could someone help out here?

Besides the Lunar language, which languages do you feel don't apply to 2nd Age?

This is the case, I have no idea, I’m brand new to this setting, know little about it and it’s people/cultures/nations, I only posses a pdf-version of the main setting book, which makes browsing it difficult, also I posses no other sources for Glorantha.

My knowledge of this setting is limited at best, I've already portrayed the Uz completely contrary to what the setting book says (more like warcraft 2 and 3 trolls, voicewise anyways), but hey, artistic freedom, anywho, languages, thats what this book needs, or this thread, or at least this (me) GM.
Can anyone help?

What would you like help with?

The grouping of languages, and perhaps a coherent and as complete as possible overview of who (as in which culture from the main book) lives where... I have a general idea about some of them, but still things confuse me.
I have considered getting my hands on the Player’s Guide to Glorantha, and I am considering some others.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

In Second Age Glorantha, Tradetalk is being pushed by the Jrusteli as a common language. A lot of people speak various related Western tongues and can read/write Western.

Implicit in this statement, but probably worth spelling out for people unfamiliar with Glorantha and/or the Malkioni is that although there are different spoken Western tongues, they share a written language.

My preference, for ease of play, is to assume that all the PC's share a common language (which is the common language of wherever the adventure/campaign starts) at least well enough to allow normal day to day conversation. Characters for whom this is not a normal native language may be required to roll their language skills to fully comprehend tricky and precise details, and may have any communication-type skills limited by their language. Players who want to play particularly exotic characters can be encouraged to converse in "pidgen english" (or the equivalent if english is not your first language, obviously), but I'd hope the stories we can tell are more interesting than the mechanical enforcement of language difficulties.

 

[soltakss]

Would this list, or parts of this list, apply or be compatible with 2nd Age Glorantha?

I haven't really had a chance to check all of these, but I have taken out the Third Age languages, I think.

There are other languages that haven't been included. Dara Happan should be a language related to Firespeech and including High Dara Happan, spoken in cities and Low Dara Happan, spoken by the Lodrilites, neither are related to the Pelorian Theyalan languages.

Arbennan
Family of languages spoken by the Agimori of Pamaltela :

Doraddik : spoken by the Doraddi of Kothar and Zamokil
Kresh : spoken by the Kresh
Arbennan : spoken by the Doraddi of Jolar
Tarint : spoken by the primitive humans of Tarien

Artmali
Family of languages spoken by the blue-skinned natives of Zamokil (Also by the Artmali Empire which might still be around in the 2nd Age):

Veldang : this is the only major Artmali language

Maslo
Family of languages spoken by the people of the Elf Coasts :

Elamlanni : series of very similar languages spoken on the Elamle peninsula
Kimotian : spoken in Kimos
Kumankan : spoken by the natives of Kumanku
Onlaksian : spoken in Onlaks
Thinokan : spoken in Thinoko

Fonritian
Family of languages spoken by in the peninsula of Fonrit :

Afadjanni : spoken in Afaddjann
Banamban : spoken along the coast of Banamba
Kareeshtan : spoken in Golden Kareeshtu
Mondoran : spoken in the interior of Fonrit

Hsunchen
Family of languages (sometimes very different) spoken by the Hsunchen people :

Basmoli : spoken by Basmoli tribes
Telmori : spoken by Telmori tribes

Pelorian
Family of languages spoken in lowland Peloria :

Votanki (later Balazaring) : spoken in Votankiland and the Elder Wilds
Dara Happan : cult language of the solar religions of Peloria (Note : this language is close to the non-human language of Firespeech)
Jarstic : spoken by the barbarian tribes of Jarst
Pelorian Farmer Languages : similar languages spoken in Worian, Arir, Kostaddi and other lowland Peloria places

Pentan
Family of languages spoken by the horse barbarian of Pent, including Horse Barbarian

Pure Horse Tongue: spoken by the Pure Horse Tribe of Prax
Grazelander : Does not exist in the 2nd Age - was Pure Horse Tongue

Praxian
Only one major language, Praxian, spoken by the Beast Riders of the Wastes and the nomads of the Hungry Plateau in Peloria

Teshnan
Family of languages spoken in the jungled southeast corner of Genertela

High Teshnan : official speech of the Kingdom of Teshnos
Melibic (also known as Low Teshnan) : spoken on the isle of Melib
Trowjang : spoken by the amazons of Trowjang


Theyalan
Family of dialects spoken mainly by the Orlanthi barbarians :

Fronelan dialects : spoken in Fronela, and including Junoran, Syanoran and Oranoran
Pelorian dialects : spoken in Peloria, including Tarshite
Ralian dialects : spoken in Ralios
Umathelan dialects : spoken in Umathela
Manirian dialects : spoken in Maniria, and including Esrolian, Caladran, Ditali and Solanthi

(Note : the non-human languages of Tusk Rider and Stormspeech are considered to be also Theyalan languages)

Vithelan
Family of languages spoken in Gloranthan Far East :

Imperial : spoken in Vormain
Kralori : spoken in the Kralori Empire
Stultan : spoken in the Kingdom of Ignorance
Tanyen : major language spoken in the East Isles
Suderian : other language spoken in the East Isles

Western
Family of languages spoken by the Malkioni worshippers of Umathela and Western Generthela :

Brithini : spoken by the Brithini
Carmanian : spoken in Carmania
Jrusteli : spoken by the people of the Middle Sea Empire
Loskalmi : spoken in the Kingdom of Loskalm
Ralian (also known as Safelstran) : spoken in the kindoms and duchies of Safelster and Ralios
Seshnegi : spoken in the Kingdom of Tanisor
Vadeli : spoken by the Vadeli
Waertag : spoken by the Waertagi navigators, all over the seas

Miscellaneous non-related other human languages

Janubian : spoken along the Janube river valley
Trade Talk : Spoken by merchants and sages throughout the Middle Sea Empire and in nearby lands
Pavic : Spoken in Pavis, realted to Draconic/Wyrmish
Thieves' Argot : street language used by thieves guilds
Draconic : Spoken by dragon mystics of the EWF

 

[duncan_disorderly]

but I'd hope the stories we can tell are more interesting than the mechanical enforcement of language difficulties.

Umm, re-reading that, it sounds a lot more disparaging than I'd intended.
I meant that For me concentrating on the difficulties of disparate languages, especially through the game mechanics, is generally less fun than whatever scenario/adventure/situation we are supposed to be tackling.

In other words I'd sooner have "'Allo 'Allo" silly accents than "Passion of the Christ" authentic Aramaic in most cases - but I'll happily concede that there are times when a more rigerous approach is the better route, and others may find the balance in a different place to me.

 

[Rasta]

The grouping of languages, and perhaps a coherent and as complete as possible overview of who (as in which culture from the main book) lives where... I have a general idea about some of them, but still things confuse me.
I have considered getting my hands on the Player’s Guide to Glorantha, and I am considering some others.

What books do you have?

Glorantha - Second Age, is a good resource for the general cultural layout, and also describes the two main Empires.

Orlanthi are many places (see Theyalan dialects for Orlanthi regions Ralios, Peloria, etc).

Kralori live in Kralorela.

Technans live in Teshnos.

Vithelans live in the Eastern Isles.

Pelorians live in Peloria.

Pentans live in Pent.

Praxians in Prax.

The EWF has hold of Dragon Pass and much of Peloria.

The God Learners hold Seshnela and controll most of the northern seas.

 

[Jegergryte]

Thanks!! Thank you very much! This is exactly what I needed, awesome!

As for what books I have for Glorantha, as I said earlier in the thread, I only have the 2nd Age Glorantha Campaign setting book.

 

[Rasta]

Thanks!! Thank you very much! This is exactly what I needed, awesome!

As for what books I have for Glorantha, as I said earlier in the thread, I only have the 2nd Age Glorantha Campaign setting book.

Cool.

 

[khazwind]

Is language covered somewhere at all? more in-depth than the cultural background at character creation (and some professions)?

I think the answer to dealing with languages depends on how sadistic a GM you are.

For myself (and remember, YGWV), for my campaign set in Ralios:

There are two main Western languages:
Seshnegi
Ralian (influenced by Theyalan languages)

There are three main Theyalan language groups,
Eastern, influenced by DarkTounge (trolls of Halikiv) and EarthSpeech
Safelstran, influenced by Ralian
Vesmonstrani, influenced by Fronelan

With each group having tribal dialects.

I'd apply a -20%* modifier between language groups and -20%* between dialects, with these modifiers being cumulative.

*These modifiers are dependent on the GM's sadism. You could raise or lower the mod.

Tradetalk, on the other hand, is a kind of lingua franca or D&D common, but it is *Very* limited IMHO. It is designed for trading, not poetry. I'd put huge modifiers on players' rolls if they are trying to use Tradetalk for anything than commerce.

thinks
Shall I compare thee to a ... bolt of cloth
Thou art more ... err ... high quality material,
more Stain resistant
Harder wearing and available in a wider range of colors.

etc etc

 

[Ilkka]

I'd put huge modifiers on players' rolls if they are trying to use Tradetalk for anything than commerce.

thinks
Shall I compare thee to a ... bolt of cloth
Thou art more ... err ... high quality material,
more Stain resistant
Harder wearing and available in a wider range of colors.

etc etc

Hee...

Poetry, as art, is definitely a possibility with even the most rudimentary languages.

Great stuff, thanks for Simon Phipp and Rasta for a very comprehensive list of languages. Immediately copy pasted it for reference.

-ile