Wandering Characters

Personally I see nothing wrong in talking with the players beforehand and working out what sort of campaign everybody wants to do. I see a fairly big difference between an intensive single city based campaign and a world spanning wandering one.

Once the tone of the campaign has been made clear I think it's kind of breaking an unwritten contract to deliberately shift it or work against it.

When I first mooted running Conan with my group I told them it would be episodic, I'd be bouncing them around the world as I saw fit between stories and they'd often end up loosing equipment or other possessions. That's very different from the campaigns I've run before so I had to make it clear to to them what I had in mind, everyone excepted it and all seem to enjoy it.

As Sutek has asked consider what's happened in Shadizar and how they left things. An opponent could easily do something to them to make them return to the town and deal with him, a magical curse or kidnapping of a loved one perhaps.

To me remaining faithful to Howard's vision is far more about tone and mood than it is about the detail of the world. I'm not saying that I will just ignore it, I'll use whatever I can, but it's the feeling of the stories that make them something different from other fantasy games and books. Try to let slip on the intricacies of the detail but keep a firm hold on keeping it feeling "Conan".
 
Rather a good GM should use this feedback to further modify and develop the plot. I understand and couldnt agree more.

Indeed. what I tend to do is have a list of NPCs and what they want, and how they plan to get it. I may have a rough timeline, but I am doubtful about the detailed event flows that some produce. The NPCs should be flexible and respond to the PCs, and each other. And be rolled for, even when the PCs aren't there, although a single roll covering a whole scene of course. Nothing adds to a campaigns feeling of naturalness if it becomes clear that the NPCs can also fail spectacularly a something that really should have worked...

But what Im also hearing is a proposed "ease" at which new environments can be woven into the story.

The mobile encounter is one of my staples. If they stay in Shadizar, it happens in Shadizar. If they go to Khauran, it happens in Khauran. Actually, I think you are in clover here: Shadizar is a large trading city, in a desert, on a major trade route between Hyboria and Turan, influenced by both. Khauran is a large trading city, in a desert, on a major trade route between Hyboria and Turan, influenced by both. Just move the plot. You probably don't even need to change the miniatures much! Don't make the King of Khauran a drunkard, or they might rumble you. Other than that, you're golden.

It takes time for me to prepare the game and remain faithful to Howard's vision. When the players run helter skelter, alot of that time is wasted.

You are going to have to introduce the players to the fact that a roleplaying game is not a wargame. If they are going to flit around the world, they will have to accept the fact that you can't spend $200 per session. You now have mintures for a load of NPCs... use them. yes they won't look quite culturally correct, but they represent types, they are not detailed depictions of the charatcers. that's what imagination is for. I find that a few lines on a hex mat and some detailed description allow the players to use their imagination to paint a picture more detailed than $1,000 worth of scenery could produce: too much scenery leaves them imagining the scenery. Again, this is not a wargame.

As far as time to prepare your own knowledge goes; I think it was Raymond Chandler who said that whenever he was uncertain as to where his plot was going or what would happen next, he had someone burst in through the door waving a gun. He was a pulp author, but it works in RPGs too. If the players are going somewhere you haven't prepared, stall for time. And there is no better way to do that than a nice large combat. Have their caravan attacked, or an enemy summon a demon to destroy them, or a Turanian raid to roll across them, or a Hillman raid, or a Pirate attack, or a band of Shemite slavers, or a group of bounty hunters or something. Fill the rest of the session with a combat/chase/capture and escape scene, and then revise their actual destination for the next session. Avoid railroading, but that doesn't mean the PCs should always be driving the plot. NPCs have goals too, and some adventures will be reacting to their moves rather than making their own.
 
Just as an aside, every time I see the thread title I have to grin. What a wonderfully subtle allusion to the Wandering Monsters of old. ^_^
 
Thanks for all the help, great stuff all!

I can see that my first problem to deal with will be this miniatures nonsense. You are right, its not a Wargame - somehow Ive allowed my players to corner me into trying to live up the visual spetical of our miniatures skirmish games and I can see now it just isnt going to happen.

Secondly I think I need to take the game just a bit less seriously. A lot of the preparation Im talking about is geared toward presenting my descriptions just a little too "perfectly", having just the right scene details, just the right terminology, just the right "look" if you will. Ill try and give myself a break and center the game on the action instead of the background in our next session and see if it doesnt save me some heartache.
 
Hey dude, I feel your pain. I had problems with just getting the players to where they all need to meet without saying "you are all in Shadizar in a bar and have known each other for years...". You know, the usual.

My biggest issue is outside distractions with a bunch of guys who act like they have ADD. they start conversations with visitors and such, or someone brings a friend or stops in from another group and they start talking about the other game they are playing and no one ends up getting anywhere and we lose our train of thought while we try to figure out what is going on and fall out of character.

Then they don't seem to think your work you put into was that awesome or whatever and you feel disappointed and like you aren't doing that great as Gm.

Sorry, I had to vent. But I feel your pain. :x
 
I had problems with just getting the players to where they all need to meet without saying "you are all in Shadizar in a bar and have known each other for years..."

Arrgh. Don't remind me, matey. In previous games that sometimes was SUCH a pain. I mean, having unacquainted characters whose players could not fathom why they should team up with _this particular bloke_ there.
In a martial campaign (military/mercenary/etc) it's easy if they are all in the same organization, they just get assigned into one unit, end of story (or rather: begin story).
Or otherwise they all get hired by the same employer for a mission (rescue hostage/retrieve statue/whatever). That's the usual setup in Shadowrun but also works in other games.
All that's relatively painless.

But if the chars all have different backgrounds, it can really suck... an old group of mine, all pretty good players as such, managed to fool around an entire session because they were so busy staying "in character" that they couldn't get to team up all the time.
One of them even walked past the city where everyone else was at. I simply let him. After an hour of being ignored ("You? Well you walk on the highroad heading east, nothing happens.") he gave in and turned around.

Now how it's going to be in our new Conan game (starting tonight if we get through the char creation in time) I cannot say yet. Two of the chars might end up with a similar background and as such know each other, but how the rest is going to fit in, I'll just have to make up as we go.
 
Two of the chars might end up with a similar background and as such know each other, but how the rest is going to fit in, I'll just have to make up as we go.

I had this in one campaign, and in the next one I came up with what might be described either as an inspired solution, or a bit of an overreaction. Many characters, different backgrounds, how do you get a cohesive party? answer: chain them together. They started off in a chain gang, and I didn't let them unchain themselves from each other until they had got to know the party REALLY WELL.

They got the message.
 
Clovenhoof said:
I had problems with just getting the players to where they all need to meet without saying "you are all in Shadizar in a bar and have known each other for years..."

Arrgh. Don't remind me, matey. In previous games that sometimes was SUCH a pain. I mean, having unacquainted characters whose players could not fathom why they should team up with _this particular bloke_ there.

Do you guys always try to have everyone join the first adventure at the beginning? I usually try a "Star Wars" approach when I start a new campaign with new characters. In Star Wars, the adventure starts out with the robots, who then meet Luke. One robot (R2-D2) already has a hook for Obi-wan and the princess. Luke is given the hook to go meet Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan convinces Luke to go with him on adventures. (Luke then refuses, so the ties that bind him are severed). They need to fly somewhere, which brings them in contact with Han Solo and Chewbacca, etc. They then meet the princess because of the robot's earlier hook.

So I usually start with one or two of the characters, and then I give them hooks to go look for other characters, and, soon enough, the adventuring party is together and, by the end, ready to go on to other adventures together.

A lot of movies and books do this to bring their characters together (The Wizard of Oz comes to mind), and I have found it works well for gaming groups also.
 
I usually try a "Star Wars" approach when I start a new campaign with new characters.

That would work sure but it would be a bit tough telling a player that they would have to wait a month or so before they could join the game. Then another player that it would be two months etc. Equally tough would be to have the guys sit there in a session while you allowed one player to interact - even if it were only for an hour two in order for the awaited "meeting times" to occur. I think in theory your idea is perfect but in reality it would take special circimstances to pull it off (Like players not in any hurry to play - rare thing that!)

Its probably more realistic to just make up the back story that includes thier meeting up, even if as you say it took a while, then start the game together.
 
rgrove0172 said:
That would work sure but it would be a bit tough telling a player that they would have to wait a month or so before they could join the game. Then another player that it would be two months etc. I think in theory your idea is perfect but in reality it would take special circimstances to pull it off (Like players not in any hurry to play - rare thing that!)

I've never had a reality vs. theory problem with it. Been doin' it that way for over 20 years, and never had anyone have to sit out more than an hour (unless they were late to the game to begin with) - and they usually enjoy the story in the meantime. Often the ones who end up waiting are the ones putting finishing touches on their characters in the first place, so it doesn't really feel like a wait. First done, first starting - as they get ready, they wait for a hook they like and jump in. Certainly no one has waited months.
 
("You? Well you walk on the highroad heading east, nothing happens.") he gave in and turned around.

What Im hearing in this thread is that this too would be considered hedging. Why cant the guy take off down the east road and have grand adventures on his own? Shouldnt be too hard to just whip up a seperate adventure on the fly that down the road will bring him back into the groups somehow. (Yeah that might have come off a little smart-a$$ed - I dont mean it too but it seems like what some of the guys here would recommend)

My biggest issue is outside distractions
Thats been a problem in games in the past as well. Ill have to say Im very fortunate that my current players are extremely committed, there is very little if any "banter" during the game. They stayed in character continually, even our "rules search" interludes were brief and low key, quickly returning to the game. I was really impressed.

Then they don't seem to think your work you put into was that awesome
No, I dont think thats it. They just dont have an understanding of what goes into preparing a game. I dont think they realized that making a dramatic change in direction was going to put me in a spot. I think theyre used to playing in game-worlds of the GM's own creation (my normal fair) where its far easier to make stuff up on the fly.
 
Certainly no one has waited months.

I guess I had the wrong impression then. I wasnt thinking in terms of a few "in game" hours of character activity. I was assuming the individual characters had significant adventure opportunity themselves, possibly days on thier own, or even longer.

Perhaps the first of the group travels to a distant city, where he wanders for a few days, gets in a tavern brawl, hooks up with the local militia and goes out on patrol - during which time he meets the next guy in the group... etc. Such action would require at least an entire session in my book, and since we only play about once a month, it would seriously delay the entrance of the other characters.
 
rgrove0172 said:
Why cant the guy take off down the east road and have grand adventures on his own? Shouldnt be too hard to just whip up a seperate adventure on the fly that down the road will bring him back into the groups somehow. (Yeah that might have come off a little smart-a$$ed - I dont mean it too but it seems like what some of the guys here would recommend)

My take is that that again breaks the "social contract" that I mentioned earlier. I think that as a rule in RPGs the players do have a responsibility to each other to create and play characters that can and will work together.

Put simply a player shouldn't be deliberately wandering off on their own for their own adventures. It's a very anti-social thing as far as the rest of the group is concerned.

If I had a player do that then in game I might say "Bob the Barbarian proceeds to have adventures that the scribes neglected to write down, I can continue to relate however what happened to the others" and then return to the main group.

Out of game I'd have words with the player and try to work out what's going on.

rgrove0172 said:
I dont think they realized that making a dramatic change in direction was going to put me in a spot. I think theyre used to playing in game-worlds of the GM's own creation (my normal fair) where its far easier to make stuff up on the fly.

Sit down and have a chat with them all and work out the direction of the campaign. Say that you had a very detailed local game in mind with a long time spent in one place. They seem to have thought they'd have a whole world to dash around in experiencing each part only briefly.

I did change from a deeper style of local GMing to a more Conan story based idea of world spanning adventure. I really valued letting my players know that before I began and haven't had any problems with the change in style.
 
rgrove0172 said:
Perhaps the first of the group travels to a distant city, where he wanders for a few days, gets in a tavern brawl, hooks up with the local militia and goes out on patrol - during which time he meets the next guy in the group... etc. Such action would require at least an entire session in my book, and since we only play about once a month, it would seriously delay the entrance of the other characters.

rgrove0172 said:
I usually try a "Star Wars" approach when I start a new campaign with new characters.

That would work sure but it would be a bit tough telling a player that they would have to wait a month or so before they could join the game. Then another player that it would be two months etc.

Again, I think you're seeing it too cut and dried, and probably a little too linearly.

You dont'have to time it, and you don't have to already know that it's going to be a month of real-time before character A can possibly meet character B.

Look at the atchetypes tha are chosen. An easy example is Han Solo. Ben knew that they needed someone rugged to get them to Alderaan, so he went to the catina at Mos Eisley with Luke where he had a few contacts, namely Chewbacca, and old friend of his mentor Yoda. Further back, C-3PO and R2-D2 are together, then they meet Luke and tell him about Ben, which sets another mystery which quickly leads the three of them to Obi-Wan Kenobi, who now calls himself Ben.

2 character teams are a good bet. Usually I put the rougish characters together, the professional characters are loners. I also look at racial break downs to see if there's an interesting fit, or some hook that might have put a number of characters together to begin with. In other words, if my four characters are a Shemite Nomad, a Nord Barbarian, a Vendiyan Noble and a Zamoran Thief, how do I work the Noble into things? The Nordhiemer? What I dicided was that Zamora was in the middle of all of thier respective "starting points" so I made that the focus. It seemed more likely that a Nordhiemer Barbarian would have wandered south or been captured as slave and taken south (given she was female) and been abler to make a life solo. I pairedd her with the Thief for an echo of Fafhrd and Grey Mouser. Then, I had the Shemite and the Noble. The noble was so far from home, and I like the displaced pricess motif, just like Leia or Sleeping Beauty, so I had her kidnapped and being taken to Zamora. The nomad became my "stranger". Like Old Ben or Han Solo, and maybe a little of Clint Eastwood's "mysterious stranger", she was a part of a caravan that had long since been ambushed, sacked and left for dead, but she had vowed to herself to never give up trying to hunt down those villains. Therefore, she wandered the area of the King's Road with this secret past and stubled across the Noble and her kidnappers at roughly the same to as the Thief and Barbarian.

The Noble sees that the members of the band are not Vendiyan traders, but Zamorans in disguise with a Vendiyan noble female hidden in one of thier wagons. The Thief and Barbarian see an opportunity, both in hitting the caravan and in kidnapping the noble for themselves. The noble just wants free, but also has infomation about her kidnappers that the others don't have that will lead them to further adventures, but they all have to learn to come together as a team. The initial combat starts, an attack on a caravan of imposters holding an exotic female captive, and nobody knows who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.

That was the first session.

rgrove0172 said:
What Im hearing in this thread is that this too would be considered hedging. Why cant the guy take off down the east road and have grand adventures on his own? Shouldnt be too hard to just whip up a seperate adventure on the fly that down the road will bring him back into the groups somehow.

Easy? Yes, I suppose it would be easy to develop an adventure for him, but your job as GM, even moreso in Conan, is to hook the group together.

The Thief player above, boy...he was the same way, and he fought incessantl;y with the other players, wanting to be in charge, dictate the path of the group, go off on his own, etc.

When he forced the issue, I let him. He went off on his own, ran into about 20 Stygian guards around a mysterious wagon. Still undetered, I decided to let him get away with all the necessary hide and move silently rolls to get to the wagon and sneak in through the top, only to be attacked by the giant serpent within, failing the poison save...again all on convenient GM fiat for (ahem) dramatic reasons. The rest of the players were annoyed that he'd gone off, that I'd allowed it to happen and even more annoyed when they realized that now, somehow, they felt compelled to rescue him.

But how did they find out he was in trouble?

I allowed player knowledge to seep in and they just showed up to save the day. Also, they wanted a team, and he didn't. I showed him in under 10 minutes that wandering off without supoport is bloody dangerous, appealed to the rest of the group's sense of cameraderie and team-play, brought the group back together and, once they were done, had a connection develop between that Stygian wagon and where they all needed to go next to get to the bottom of things.

Afterwards, The players, in character, told the Thief that next time he was on his own. The Barbarian player got to say "And I'm getting tired of always saving your hide...you always wander off! What about our oath?"

I was dumb struck. There was no oath, but the player made it up on the spot to keep things on the track that sher wanted and made it clear to the player to stick with the groupo, or at least the Barbarian, from here on out. It was brilliant. The Thief was still petulant with the Noble until she leveled up in Temptress, which we played as her finally revealing her hidden seduction skills learned in court. One manipulative sneak attack from her later and the Thief was locked in.

:wink:
 
Sutek said:
Easy? Yes, I suppose it would be easy to develop an adventure for him, but your job as GM, even moreso in Conan, is to hook the group together.

Sutek's said a lot of good stuff to say but I've got a different take on what he says above.

I don't view my job as a GM as hooking the group together, I view that as a job for the players. When characters are made I make clear that I want a group that will be able to work together and trust each other sufficiently to enable the group to function. They then have to come up with concepts that will allow that.

Now many might view that as limited but my time as a GM for both running and preparing is limited. I want the game to focus on the group and not have one player pulling it all over the place doing "selfish" things that focus on their own character to the detriment of others and then justifying it by saying "but it's in character, that's what my character would do."

I even hammered home the "you can all trust each other and work together point" by having them all describe a brief "memory" from a sinking ship just before the first adventure where each one was saved by one of the others.

Mmm, maybe I did make it my job after all.

My point is though that for my Conan campaign I got all of that side of the campaign flavour sorted out before hand before there's any gaming done.
 
rgrove0172 said:
I guess I had the wrong impression then. I wasnt thinking in terms of a few "in game" hours of character activity. I was assuming the individual characters had significant adventure opportunity themselves, possibly days on thier own, or even longer.

No, my plots usually involve faster resolution. Since everyone wants to be in the group (player-wise), matching character-skills with plot needs happens relatively quickly. Everyone has an individual hook into the plot - and since they are all involved in the plot, all that has to happen is that they have to encounter each other in regard to that plot.

rgrove0172 said:
Perhaps the first of the group travels to a distant city,

I would start him out in that distant city.

rgrove0172 said:
where he wanders for a few days,

No, I get right to the plot. I hook him in the first "scene" and create the need to get help, look for someone, or otherwise meet someone. Next scene, next character (with his own hook). Create another need or another opportunity for another character, repeat.

rgrove0172 said:
gets in a tavern brawl

Only if it has to do with the plot or a means to meet another character, otherwise this would just be a time-waster.

rgrove0172 said:
hooks up with the local militia and goes out on patrol - during which time he meets the next guy in the group... etc.

You've already missed opportunities to introduce plot, developments and characters - why wait so long?

rgrove0172 said:
Such action would require at least an entire session in my book, and since we only play about once a month, it would seriously delay the entrance of the other characters.

I can assemble a group of characters of diverse backgrounds within an hour or two and have them all vested in the plot and needing to work together to see it through. It doesn't have to take an entire session. I play twice a month for 8 hour sessions - and usually finish entire adventures in a session or two.

I hook them, offer 5 or 6 cliffhanger and development sequences wherein they figure things out, give them a climax to the story and resolve the loose ends. Things happen quick - my rule of thumb is that if things are slow, make something exciting happen.
 
My take is that that again breaks the "social contract"

I can understand the benefit of having an agreement between players before hand but it would classify, in my opinion, as the ultimate representation of "hedging". Here we dont even try and disguise the influence on the player's actions, instead we just tell them "You have to do this, lets all agree". Some players might not mind, some might.

You dont'have to time it, and you don't have to already know that it's going to be a month of real-time before character A can possibly meet character B.

Yes you do, otherwise you invite players with character-sheets in hand to set and watch somebody else play. They might not appreciate that. You would have to know before hand when you plotted the new character to make an appearance.

Lets take your StarWars example. One of my characters is C3PO - we play out a session in which they evade boarding Imperial troops, ride an escape pod, get kidnapped by Jawas and eventually sold - Thats probably a game session of a few hours in itself. If Ive got Han Solo's player sitting there eating chips, hes going to wait a long time. We've got the hook up with Luke to play through, somehow bring in old Ben's player and make it to the SpacePort - which is his point of origin. Things could have gone differently than they did in the film too. Perhaps the Jawas keep R2 and the group has to go on a little quests to find him. 3PO mentions his goofy message he kept beeping about and Ben realizes it might be something important. Han waits patiently for another couple sessions. Come on.

Mmm, maybe I did make it my job after all.
The players might do this on thier own but I think most groups would expect the GM to set up the situation and explain thier coming together.

matching character-skills with plot needs
Am I to gather by this that you specifically encourage character creation to accomodate the intended plot? Or that you draw up the plot specifically for the character types and skills? Either way thats a bit foriegn to me. I tend to create the situations in the game as if they "just happen", that Hyboria is living and breathing around the characters. Perhaps they are a perfect fit to the given circumstance, perhaps not.

I would start him out in that distant city.
But there was adventure on the road, encounters, an introduction to a future major NPC etc. This was part of the game. You would eliminate it because it didnt involve the entire group? I thought that was your point, to allow each one to develop a bit and logically join up as the plot unfolds.

Only if it has to do with the plot or a means to meet another character, otherwise this would just be a time-waster.

Ah, there we are very different. I dont see it as a time waster. Through the encounter the player gets a good dose of what the city is all about. Some local color from the tavern itself and the patrons. Perhaps some stories told about the area, rumors etc. The fight reveals just how dangerous the seedy side of the town is and perhaps makes an enemy he will have to deal with later, or maybe not. A tavern fight probably a random event even in real life, perhaps with no long term effects at all but its still part of the character's experience. I dont see that a game has to follow the classic literary structure on evey account where every event develops character, foreshadows something else, builds suspense, or whatever. Sometimes cool things just happen.

You've already missed opportunities to introduce plot, developments and characters - why wait so long?

Maybe it wasnt so long, maybe it was. Perhaps he adventured for days in the town or with the militia before the patrol. Either way the next player is setting there waiting for his entrance. If I wanted to rush that meeting and get them together quickly then perhaps I let the time pass swiflty with little detail, on the other hand maybe I do throw in some cool events, interesting encounters and NPCs... but the rest of the gang is waiting... remember.

and usually finish entire adventures in a session or two.

Ok Vincent, obviously we just play differently, we have different goals in our games and our players have different expectations. I think we are borderling arguing over this and thats not my intention at all. We are just on different pages.

An entire adventure in two 8 hour sessions? In my experience that would have to be a very short, almost introductory kind of adventure. Perhaps the exploration of a small ruin or a brief encounter in a small village or something. In our first game, for instance, the one Ive been eluding to, we spent almost 2 hours just getting the players acquainted with the setting. They strode the back streets of the Desert in Shadizar. Frequented some tavern, did some bartering, interrupted a theft by some street urchins harrassing an old man, watched a cat-fight between two harlots that turned deadly, etc. It was a colorful and interesting journey through the city I felt would be home for several sessions. There wasnt a single plot element relayed in that time but it was hardly wasted. When the beginnings of my storyline began, over 2 hours later - they felt like they knew the City, at least a bit. A hour or so later they found themselves pursued by a superior group of henchmen. The chase through the river district of the Maul encompassed and hour all by itself, and never resulted in open-combat. Hastily sketched building formations, alleyways and the meriad of skill checks and maneuvers used to escape thier foe was exciting stuff - but it took time to do it with the detail and attention it deserved. We played out an extremely simple adventure that spanned 3 days in the game in about 10 hours. There were only 3 combats in the entire session, each taking about 30 minutes, the rest of the time was pure roleplaying.

I really value your opinion and will ask for it as often as you are kind enough to lend it, but I guess Ill have to consider your group plays a very different style of game.
 
rgrove0172 said:
Lets take your StarWars example. One of my characters is C3PO - we play out a session in which they evade boarding Imperial troops, ride an escape pod, get kidnapped by Jawas and eventually sold - Thats probably a game session of a few hours in itself. If Ive got Han Solo's player sitting there eating chips, hes going to wait a long time. We've got the hook up with Luke to play through, somehow bring in old Ben's player and make it to the SpacePort - which is his point of origin. Things could have gone differently than they did in the film too. Perhaps the Jawas keep R2 and the group has to go on a little quests to find him. 3PO mentions his goofy message he kept beeping about and Ben realizes it might be something important. Han waits patiently for another couple sessions. Come on.

I think you are reading too much into it. He seems to take the concept of that, but moves things along at a much quicker pace, e.g.:
1. Player 1, a thief, starts out being chased by the guards, a couple of rounds of the chase happen, whereupon Player 1 ducks into a temple to escape.
2. Player 2, a priest, (who is planning to leave the city on a secret mission for the temple and will accompany a caravan) starts out in the temple, sees Player 1 dash in and figures out what is going on and before the guards comes in, sees Player 1 as a sign from his god as a helper being delivered to help with his secret mission, helps hide Player 1 from the guards, and the two discuss the mission which Player 1 agrees to go on in exchange for Player 2's help and the potential for loot.
3. Players 1 and 2 travel to the caravan, where they meet up with Player 3, a caravan guard, and the caravan sets out.

All that can be handled in an hour tops, and the party got united through means other than "you all meet in a bar..."

rgrove0172 said:
and usually finish entire adventures in a session or two.

Ok Vincent, obviously we just play differently, we have different goals in our games and our players have different expectations. I think we are borderling arguing over this and thats not my intention at all. We are just on different pages.

An entire adventure in two 8 hour sessions? In my experience that would have to be a very short, almost introductory kind of adventure.

I typically run an entire Conan adventure in 1 4-6 hour session. Here are some of the ways I make that happen:
1. Starting the adventure: I start the adventure in media res, i.e., in the midst of action, by starting out with a quick explanation of what has occurred and the present situation the PCs find themselves in. This saves a lot of time at the start, because you skip all the dull lead-in stuff, plus it is more exciting.
2. Money and Equipment: Dealing with money and equipment can take a lot of bookkeeping and waste a lot of time if you let it, as is often the case in a more equipment-centric game like DnD. In Conan, I tell the PCs what they have at the start (frequently what they ended last adventure with, or nothing but loincloths, or nothing but armor, etc.), and none of those changes take more than a few minutes for the PCs to figure out (at most, writing down stats for a different weapon or two). Then during the adventure, there usually aren't many times in which buying/selling happens, which avoids a lot of time thinking about what to buy/sell, calculating money, etc. Further, I tell the PCs if they have general equipment, e.g., basic rope, tinderbox, sack, torch, etc., which is typically the case or if they had been naked, then if they steal some equipped horses, they have that stuff again. Then, they only have to buy/sell exceptional things, like their few weapons, armor, and significant items like thieves' tools, healer's kit, silk rope, etc. Making assumptions that PCs have basic equipment unless there is a reason otherwise saves a lot of time and trouble, and let's you focus on the action. And when you give out loot, keep in general (e.g., "you grabbed a sack of silver") and keep the adventure moving so that the amount doesn't matter usually, until perhaps after the adventure if at all.
3. Plot Details: When I plan an adventure ahead of time, I think of a few encounters they might have, and how they might end up going from one to another, and how they might stray from that. I don't overly map out the plot, but instead, figure out some details on how they can find their way from one point to another (and it doesn't have to be linear, there can be several things going on and they can take different paths and end up in different situations). By knowing some of the ways to help the PCs get back on track in advance, i.e., details about the various events of potential significance, then I know how and when to provide information that will keep the adventure moving. This can be harder for non-linear adventures, so I would start with doing it on simple adventures where the PCs go from A to B to C, to help you develop how to do this, then you can expand to non-linear adventures where the permutations expand exponentially and PCs can more easily lose their way. Alternatively, you can be totally free-form, but I find that some PCs find that too difficult to handle, and just want to play an adventure, so some leading isn't always a bad thing.
 
rgrove0172 said:
Am I to gather by this that you specifically encourage character creation to accomodate the intended plot? Or that you draw up the plot specifically for the character types and skills?

Please don't gather either of those, as both would be wrong. Just that as the plot develops, players know by their skills where to jump in at, or how to create a situation that allows them to jump in.

rgrove0172 said:
Ah, there we are very different. I dont see it as a time waster. Through the encounter the player gets a good dose of what the city is all about. Some local color from the tavern itself and the patrons. Perhaps some stories told about the area, rumors etc.

My players would find all of that fairly boring if I spent more than a few minutes on it. I paint all the background colour in broad strokes and let their imagination fill in the rest.

I guess it is the difference between a Frazetta painting and an Elmore painting. Elmore has all the details (even the backgrounds are dazzlingly detailed - despite the fact that at the focal lengths he uses, they should be fuzzy) and makes a painting that takes a long time to really take in. Frazetta tends to have almost "fuzzy" paintings (I am thinking mostly of his Conan paintings) that do not capture detail like Elmore, but captures atmosphere quickly.

rgrove0172 said:
An entire adventure in two 8 hour sessions? In my experience that would have to be a very short, almost introductory kind of adventure.

I ran the entire adventure in Across the Thunder River in two sessions. I ran "Heretics of Tarantia" in one night.

rgrove0172 said:
In our first game, for instance, the one Ive been eluding to, we spent almost 2 hours just getting the players acquainted with the setting. They strode the back streets of the Desert in Shadizar. Frequented some tavern, did some bartering, interrupted a theft by some street urchins harrassing an old man, watched a cat-fight between two harlots that turned deadly, etc. It was a colorful and interesting journey through the city I felt would be home for several sessions.

That would have bored me and my players to distraction. I would have captured all of that in about 5 to 10 minutes. I guess since I grew up reading Howard, I just describe atmosphere like he did. He didn't give a lot of detail - just enough to let the imagination fill in the rest. I can't do a Herman Melville and describe everything ad infinitum the way he does. He paints a pretty picture with his words, but when I read Moby Dick I just wanted him to get on with it.

rgrove0172 said:
There were only 3 combats in the entire session, each taking about 30 minutes, the rest of the time was pure roleplaying.

Out of curiosity, what would be your definition of impure roleplaying?
 
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