WAHHHHH My Narn are broken...

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Cosmic Mongoose
seriously... everyone keeps going on about X ship from X fleet is broken. Well then, I've given up looking at it from an objective point of view, Afer all, if you have 34 great ships and one poor one, sure you should complain about the poor one :-)

Anyway, The G'Quan. Come on!! a 3AD boresight beam!! when E-Mines got Nerfed to hell in SFOS (it was needed, but I think they went OTT and I still think they could be better) The G'Quan needed some kind of upgrade to replace the fact it lost 6 area effect critmonsters a round.... It got some more crew and damage, which was nice I'll grant you, but still, more beam! 2 G'Quans are needed to match the beamyness of a Primus, and it's still constriceted by boresight!

The Dag'Kar. for the very same reasons as above, went from the best damned raid ship in the game, arguably too good, to one of the worst. It has one roll, and one roll only, fighter clearance, which, when you have G'Quans, Bin'Taks, G'Vrahns, G'Kariths with E-Mines makes it redundant in most cases. I'd love to stock it with ship busters, but it is so amazingly slow and fragile it would never get in range! Compare it with the skirmish Sag, and I would say the Sag is way better, even the watered down sag. At least up it's armour, or speed, or both, something to make it viable for anything other than fighter clearance (oh, or Ambushes, it's great in ambushes)

G'Quonth and G'Tal. WHY. you have the Bin Tak and G'Vrahn, both vastly superior ships. Either scrap them, or make them worthwhile, how? beats me, there is only so much you can do with a G'Quan I suppose, how about a battlecarrier, or a G'Quan war level carrier in late era, chock full of frazis, with command, and fleet carrier? strip most of it's weapons, and voila, another G'Quan useful varient... and don't say you can just take a G'Vrahn, 5 frazi's an no carrier trait, bah!

The G'Koch. whuu?! speed 4? I mean, I know mongoose write fluff that bears as much relevance to a ship as a badger painting does to a Picasso, but still. with speed 7 or 8, the ship is very workeable.

I will actually also say, Advanced e-mines, what a con!! ooh look, they aren't slow loading.... so we will strip out one e-mine tube, meaning you get the same firepower as before, but can't have different varients... what smart bugger thought up that?! you can just see them in the Narn shipyards, ooh frank, we know how to speed up the mine loading process? Excelent jeremy, we can fire twice as many e-mines as ever before... Hellow, freddie here from accounting, we need some cutbacks, loose one of those e-mine launchers. . . .

Seriously, I love my Narn, I don't really mind that the raid and battle level choices are weak, I usually take a G'Lan over a G'Quan anyway, but everyone else seems to complain about things, so i'm in as well now. I suppose I should have been more complainy, but I'll try harder next time :evil:
 
Hah! You call that a winge?!?! ;)

You fogot to complain about how your skirmish ships are rubish and you dont have enough ships to choose from, oh and you didnt complain about lack of antifighter weaoponry and poor attack craft.

Oh and you didnt complain about your understrenght War and Armageddon choices either :P

Seriously though, the G'Quan is fine now they've put varient mines back. Load up with Ship Breakers and those 3AD beams done seem so much of an issue all of a sudden....
 
Locutus9956 said:
Hah! You call that a winge?!?! ;)

You fogot to complain about how your skirmish ships are rubish and you dont have enough ships to choose from, oh and you didnt complain about lack of antifighter weaoponry and poor attack craft.

Oh and you didnt complain about your understrenght War and Armageddon choices either :P

Seriously though, the G'Quan is fine now they've put varient mines back. Load up with Ship Breakers and those 3AD beams done seem so much of an issue all of a sudden....

they do until you get within 10"!!
 
Dag'Kar...rubbish?!

Seriously though, fighters have a hell of a lot more bite than they used to so the Dag'Kar role, unique though it is, is incredibly useful (Not to mention the annoyance you can cause with ionic mines to admirals that like to use special orders)

Fighters can be deadly used by a canny opponent (particularly the Whitestar fighter!) As a Shadow player with no more turret arcs and fighters that now fire first - I wish I could clear fighters as easily as the Narn can... :(

Plus, not only can you claim fighter superiority, but the Frazi has a whopping 4AD to throw at the enemy, I've seen more than a few ships overwhelmed by Frazi!

Comparing the G'Quan (which is ok with mine variants) vs the Primus is a classic comparison I suppose but everyone knows the Primus (and Tertius) is a really good ship for its PL...6AD, SAP, DD, B is just plain nasty! I suppose I would have to agree with your general comments there but not a huge problem...

Not saying you don't deserve a whinge though...after all what are the forums for ;)

EDIT (Forgot to add - you can put G'Sten on a G'Quan...how COOL is that?! ROFL)
 
hiffano said:
seriously... everyone keeps going on about X ship from X fleet is broken. Well then, I've given up looking at it from an objective point of view, Afer all, if you have 34 great ships and one poor one, sure you should complain about the poor one :-)

Of course you should. You actually want a useless entry on the fleet list? Might as well delete it and save space as just leave a worthless ship there.
 
I have always thought that ships with boresighted weapons should have more dice for that weapon then one with a forward arc due to the difficulty getting the boresight on target. The G'quons laser should be at least 4AD.

Dave
 
As I see it, the G'Quan has plenty of firepower without a massive beam. It has silly numbers of AD for its pulse cannons and twin arrays. The twin arrays might be weak but the number of AD it can throw makes a Primus' secondaries look like popguns.

Perhaps the pulse cannons should have a range increase so the ship can actually do something between laser range and twin array range. Between 20" and 8" it's basically unarmed.
 
Thats a good idea, a lot of ships from other fleets suffer from this kind of thing as well, either change the ship stats, or you can fire long range at half dice, but then thats like a refit option i suppose?
 
Changing the ship's weapons fit is more sensible to my mind. Just drop the 8AD light pulse cannons and get 5 or 6AD medium pulse cannons with longer range. That a front-line warship like the G'Quan cruiser should be armed with weak long-range lasers, e-mines and large batteries of defensive guns makes little sense. It really should have some sort of secondary guns rather than just tiny light pulse cannons.

A bit like the Primus, really, now that I think of it... :wink:
 
Basicaly all boresight weapons should be twinlinked, that overcomes the restriction of not being able to target any ship they like and not being able to CAF. A Primus will generally still win. We played this way till the tourney list came out.
 
A front arc beam can't always CAF, so I want twin-linked for my front arc beams whenever I have to turn... :wink:

Sorry, couldn't resist that. Twin-linked for the G-Quan and Omega would make a lot of sense, since they actually do have twin mounts that fire together...
 
twinlinked would be very bad, most my opponents dont have problems boresighting as they use things like chronos to init sink. yes they wont always boresight the best ship but something like a marathon twinlinking its beam will take down whatever it shoots if its shooting the smaller stuff.
 
Silvereye said:
Target said:
Basicaly all boresight weapons should be twinlinked, ...

If you do this, what would you also do to re-balance the Drazi that already have Twin-Linked boresight weapons?

I don't see why you'd have to rebalance. Not everything is re-balanced every time there is a correction.

Truthfully the G'Quan needs work. Why is it the G'Lan and the Var'Nic both have MEDIUM Lasers that do more damage than the G'Quan's HEAVY laser?

My fix for the G'Quan is to increase the beam to 5D and reduce the E-Mines to 4D apiece. This gives the ship more punch while not necessarily massively increasing its attack dice. It also puts the E-Mines back into a support role where they should be. The twin-link idea makes a lot of sense too.

As for the Dag'Kar, increase its speed to 7. Its low punch and fragility wouldn't be so bad if it were at least a bit faster.

The easiest fix for both of these ships is to allow ships to load whatever e-mine variant they want DURING the scenario. If it is something as simple as changing settings why can't it be done during the fight? Modern ships can load different types of rounds automatically during a fight, why is it spaceships can't? That gives them the option of using ship-breakers without totally surrendering every bit of long-range firepower.

Tzarevitch
 
The easiest fix for both of these ships is to allow ships to load whatever e-mine variant they want DURING the scenario. If it is something as simple as changing settings why can't it be done during the fight? Modern ships can load different types of rounds automatically during a fight, why is it spaceships can't? That gives them the option of using ship-breakers without totally surrendering every bit of long-range firepower.

But they already have that option to a certain extent... You can short charge a launcher that has been equiped with ship breakers and fire a 20" normal e-mine at half AD but all the regular traits except slow-loading. Matter of fact, your firing sequence can go like this

Turn 1: Fire short charge
Turn 2: Fire Short Charge
Turn 3: Fire Ship Breaker
Turn 4: Wait for slow-loading
Turn 5: Fire Short Charge or Ship Breaker
 
Obsidian said:
The easiest fix for both of these ships is to allow ships to load whatever e-mine variant they want DURING the scenario. If it is something as simple as changing settings why can't it be done during the fight? Modern ships can load different types of rounds automatically during a fight, why is it spaceships can't? That gives them the option of using ship-breakers without totally surrendering every bit of long-range firepower.

But they already have that option to a certain extent... You can short charge a launcher that has been equiped with ship breakers and fire a 20" normal e-mine at half AD but all the regular traits except slow-loading. Matter of fact, your firing sequence can go like this

Turn 1: Fire short charge
Turn 2: Fire Short Charge
Turn 3: Fire Ship Breaker
Turn 4: Wait for slow-loading
Turn 5: Fire Short Charge or Ship Breaker

TBH I cant see the point of short charging that often, look at what it does. you have 20" range....instead of 30" and you have half dice!

so a G'Quan can either 3AD per turn, or 6AD every other turn...to me, you are wasting potential here. I'd rather bang out max AD, rather than short charge rounds you might not benifit any effect
 
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