WAHHHHH My Narn are broken...

[Triggy]

I've actually been looking at rebalancing Narn e-mines and EA missiles and have the following thought for the e-mines:

Make the standard e-mine double damage but keep the rule about no criticals.

This would force a dramatic choice on the Narn player, keep their anti-fighter ability exactly the same and not overpower them (ship-breaker is still far better if you want a dedicated anti-ship mine). I've tried a few very basic tests (straight stationary ships vs ships combats) and the results look promising

 

[Target]

I could see some ships not needing the twin linking but Omega & G'Quan doesn't overpower them in the least. Haven't played with the new Omega.
Only reason i turn my primus is i've usually destroyed all available targets.

 

[Apachex]

I could see some ships not needing the twin linking but Omega & G'Quan doesn't overpower them in the least. Haven't played with the new Omega.
Only reason i turn my primus is i've usually destroyed all available targets.

Agree on twin-linking for the G'Quan and Omega. These are the mainstay ships, and should have the punching power to reflect it. As someone else pointed our earlier, in the show we see Whitestars need to Boresite and Omegas can sweep their beams.....

Make the standard e-mine double damage but keep the rule about no criticals.

This would force a dramatic choice on the Narn player, keep their anti-fighter ability exactly the same and not overpower them (ship-breaker is still far better if you want a dedicated anti-ship mine).

I kind of favor matching the show more. E-mines appear to be a long range volley weapon that are fired before the slugging weapons are used. I think they should stay in the supporting role they have now. Its the Narn Boresite that needs to be enhanced. (It is their main weapon on the show.)

 

[Triggy]

I kind of favor matching the show more. E-mines appear to be a long range volley weapon that are fired before the slugging weapons are used. I think they should stay in the supporting role they have now. Its the Narn Boresite that needs to be enhanced. (It is their main weapon on the show.)

Exactly, you can reel off a volley of e-mines and they still have to reload and they can't do criticals where much of the real damage is done. They're purely a softening up weapon but with double damage at least they're worth the effort of the shot.

 

[Silvereye]

Make the standard e-mine double damage but keep the rule about no criticals.

Double Damage / Triple Damage was something I have been toying with from time to time too. Still not up to making a Shadow Ship 'scream' when it takes a hit from one, but increases the damage potential of the system against ships without affecting fighters.

 

[katadder]

until you fire them on low armour minbari or everybodys stealthy scouts then DD really hurts alot.

 

[Triggy]

until you fire them on low armour minbari or everybodys stealthy scouts then DD really hurts alot.

That's true....not an easily solved problem though other than forcing a stealth roll (against the lowest stealth hit) if you are going to hit any stealth ships in the blast...maybe...

 

[katadder]

which then nueters e-mines against stealth ships if having to roll for stealth. if you want to make the slightly better perhaps give them AP so they can soften up the target through more hits.

 

[Silvereye]

But AP would make them more effective against Auxillary Craft and Ships.

DD shouldn't make too much of a significant change to ships with or without stealth, except they may take a bit more damage in each volley. The fact that an E-mine cannot do criticals means there is a pretty predicatable damage range each Mine will do.

 

[katadder]

yes but who else would be able to guarantee 12AD of DD damage to the minbari? or even to you scout? watch the vaarls disappear from all league fleet lists for tourneys as they would be a waste of time. also means whitestars would get nuked amazingly easy as they cant dodge it and its all doubled.

 

[Silvereye]

Vaarls normally explode when something (successfully) looks at them , 12 AD of regular e-mines would pretty much put an end to them anyway (12 AD Vs Hull 3 for 9 hits, 1 bulkhead and 8/8 will leave them skeletoned and crippled). Most other Patrol choices would just be crippled afterwards.

When your up against a White Star with 2x6 AD e-maine launchers, on average you will get only four hits, 4 Damage/4 Crew halved to 2/2 (DD would make this 4/4) and your white stars likely get free reign on the firing vessel the next turn So you'll need 36 AD (3x G'Quan) of DD e-mines to have a good (not guaranteed) chance of killing a White Star outright. But then 36 AD DD would likely seriously dent or explode anything Raid and below anyway.

 

[katadder]

well 2 g'quans would cripple it. but as for ur vaarl statement how would you like to lsoe both ur vaarls in one turn of 2 e-mine tubes instead of 2 turns? thats what would happen with DD.

 

[Obsidian]

TBH I cant see the point of short charging that often, look at what it does. you have 20" range....instead of 30" and you have half dice!

so a G'Quan can either 3AD per turn, or 6AD every other turn...to me, you are wasting potential here. I'd rather bang out max AD, rather than short charge rounds you might not benifit any effect

The point of the example there was to show that even though you've outfitted the launchers with Ship Breakers you do not in fact "totally surrendering every bit of long-range firepower." While closing with the enemy, you can fire off short charged e-mines that do a great job of clearing out fighters and give you a 20" range instead of 10". Once you get within that 10" range you unload with the ship breakers. Also keep in mind that it is per launcher, so the G'Quan with 2 launchers can have one firing a short charge and the other firing a ship breaker in the same turn.

So if we specifically talk about a G'Quan firing both launchers each turn we're looking at

Turn 1 : 6 AD at 20" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged
Turn 2 : 6 AD at 20" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged
Turn 3 : 12 AD at 10" with Double Damage, Super AP that may now benefit from Concentrate All Firepower.

By comparison if you just use the standard e-mines then you get

Turn 1 : 12 AD at 30" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged
Turn 2 : Wait for Slow Loadingg
Turn 3 : 12 AD at 30" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged

 

[Triggy]

TBH I cant see the point of short charging that often, look at what it does. you have 20" range....instead of 30" and you have half dice!

so a G'Quan can either 3AD per turn, or 6AD every other turn...to me, you are wasting potential here. I'd rather bang out max AD, rather than short charge rounds you might not benifit any effect

The point of the example there was to show that even though you've outfitted the launchers with Ship Breakers you do not in fact "totally surrendering every bit of long-range firepower." While closing with the enemy, you can fire off short charged e-mines that do a great job of clearing out fighters and give you a 20" range instead of 10". Once you get within that 10" range you unload with the ship breakers. Also keep in mind that it is per launcher, so the G'Quan with 2 launchers can have one firing a short charge and the other firing a ship breaker in the same turn.

So if we specifically talk about a G'Quan firing both launchers each turn we're looking at

Turn 1 : 6 AD at 20" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged
Turn 2 : 6 AD at 20" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged
Turn 3 : 12 AD at 10" with Double Damage, Super AP that may now benefit from Concentrate All Firepower.

By comparison if you just use the standard e-mines then you get

Turn 1 : 12 AD at 30" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged
Turn 2 : Wait for Slow Loadingg
Turn 3 : 12 AD at 30" with a 3" radius that can't be dodged

Even with short charging I didn't think you could switch e-mine types in the same battle between standard and ship-breaker.

 

[H]

you can't, but at least on the old style ships, you could have different mine types in different tubes

 

[Locutus9956]

This has been queried before Triggy, short charge emines ARE standard. ALWAYS, no matter what type you load as the main ones. When you fire short charge you fire a short charged standard mine you dont fire a short charged Ship breaker.

 

[Reaverman]

This has been queried before Triggy, short charge emines ARE standard. ALWAYS, no matter what type you load as the main ones. When you fire short charge you fire a short charged standard mine you dont fire a short charged Ship breaker.

Yeap, its only allowed for E-Mines. Shipbreakers loses all the benefits of of an E-Mine when taken, that would also include short charges.

I also think making someone make a stealth check against E-Mines, not practical. Stealth protects against directed attacks, not indirect blasts.

 

[Morgoth]

I would like to see the main laser of the G'Quan upped a little - 4 dice to match the omega, I think this is all it needs personally. With regards to the Dag'Kur I would just up the hull to 5 and leave the rest of it alone.

The two G'Quan variants at war level however require a serious overhaul as theBin'Tak is simply the ship of choice at that level. You would need something to make the two ships attractive options. The G'Vrahn makes a good addition to this priority as it offers something different at that level, still has decent damage score - fast, maneouvarable, decent traits and weapons. but the G'Quan variants are terrible...

 

[Reaverman]

I would like to see the main laser of the G'Quan upped a little - 4 dice to match the omega

I never thought the Omega had E-Mines? :?

 

[Morgoth]

no the omega doesn't have e-mines but has a rear laser, interceptors, more fighters, better quality secondary weapons with better ranges and its faster too!!