Vree Xeel?

[Star-Lynx]

I have one Xeel in my Vree fleet, I played it carrying Zoriths and it did very well, it might not have carrier trait but its the only ship apart from the Z'Takk that can bring fighters inside its hull to the battle.

the Zoriths I remember took out most fighters and the ones that survive the Zoriths were to few and were destroyed by the AF firepower of my Vree saucers.

makes me think when I go back to looking at my Vree I buy a few more Xeels.

 

[David Anla Shok']

To the debate over one mistyped word...

TDtD, go check your own posts for perfection and leave mine out of it. You've got your own issues with 'little place Oxford' that is missing a word or a punctuation mark.

If I have been using the wrong spelling it was not intentional, just an artifact of typing with to little sleep.

Ripple

It's not a debate, it's called humour. I'm just tired of seeing people say "cannon" when they mean "canon." Don't take it personally.

I love my trick of missing words out of sentences, I really do. Not sure how I do it... :?

Imagine my horror when noticing that the smiley had been left off of my bit of humor!

 

[JTL109]

oh, on the Xeel thingie...

Yes I would rather it remained a fighting ship that happened to carry fighters too, but to be that and balanced it needs to lose something substantial as right now it is too strong by a good stretch. Compared to the Milani (its closest cousin as far as purpose goes) it is far too effective.

Great fighters, good maneuver, good damage for its level, great gun for its level... just needs to tweak down a bit so that it compares well with its class mates and is not such an obvious choice over the other ships in the fleet list.
Ripple

-------
I would reccomend that you run a few honest playtests.
You underrate the Milani by a good margin. Start shooting at
15 inches, the Milani will not take any damage for the first three
turns (with average dice). The Precise Beam on the Milani is not
to be forgotten, nor the hull 5. While the Vree is only hull 4.
Think about it, the ships are much closer than you currently
think.

 

[Ripple]

actually I have run a number of play tests on both ships...

Milani starting at fifteen (given the xeel is far more maneuverable and has better initiative it will be his choice NOT the milani's). You do two points of damage average and no crit. Xeel fires back at you and hits 8 points, down goes the shield.

Round two, still at 15, the milani will hit for another 2 points, but should also get a crit now, average 2ish additional damage and an effect which could be huge. Xeel (who should shoot first most games) will hit another four times, first one going away due to the one box shield, so three hits for 6 damage. Damage is even.

Turn three, still at 15, repeat above numbers, but this time the Xeel will get a crit in on average, four 4ish additional points. Milani has taken 16 points now and is dead, the xeel has taken 10 and has two effect to work on.

Note, this assumes the xeel is going to face away from the milani and run the edge using all power if loses initiative, and has left the fighters out of it. Add the fighters in and it gets worse and worse for the Milani. If the Milani had some way to force range eight it would stand a bit better chance, but with initiative benefits and a turret, that shouldn't happen.

Even if it can force the range, it only gains roughly 4 damage points on the xeel, which then overfly's it and avoids the laser for the rest of time.

Milani can adopt CBD, but then gives up its fighter launch, which the xeel cannot do, but then the Xeel adopts CAF to even the effect. Given the CQ bonus of the Vree, CAF is effective more often than not.

To the folks who took exception to my comeback on the grammer thing... sorry, canon vs cannon is usually as much a typo as mistake in spelling, so it feels very very nit picky to me. Unlike say the Minbari thing were folks are clearly going by sound. I wasn't really ticked, just annoyed because of the pot kettle black thing.

Ripple

 

[Chernobyl]

on the topic of the vree, but slightly off topic, doesn't a vree ship have to declare the "all stop" special action to get its supermaneuverable ability?

since it needs to move "less than half" its speed to gain SM, this is only possible with the all stop order.

so effectively, the Xeel can't launch fighters while SM since you can't launch fighters on a SA other than scramble scramble...

Chernobyl

 

[David Anla Shok']

on the topic of the vree, but slightly off topic, doesn't a vree ship have to declare the "all stop" special action to get its supermaneuverable ability?

since it needs to move "less than half" its speed to gain SM, this is only possible with the all stop order.

so effectively, the Xeel can't launch fighters while SM since you can't launch fighters on a SA other than scramble scramble...

Chernobyl

Huh? Etc.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Super Manoeuverability: Vree ships are incredibly agile. All Vree ships may move less than half their Speed if this[sic] wish. If they do so, they may also move as if they had the Super Manoeuvrable trait.

^ more useful that your average "huh?"

 

[David Anla Shok']

Super Manoeuverability: Vree ships are incredibly agile. All Vree ships may move less than half their Speed if this[sic] wish. If they do so, they may also move as if they had the Super Manoeuvrable trait.

^ more useful that your average "huh?"

Oh, knew that. All of that All Stop stuff made me go Huh?!

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Aye, but I don't think that Chernobyl had noticed that sentance, and "Huh?" is hardly the best way to draw his attention to it

 

[David Anla Shok']

Aye, but I don't think that Chernobyl had noticed that sentance, and "Huh?" is hardly the best way to draw his attention to it

Very well. I shall try to be more pointed the next time.

 

[akenatum]

One thing to remember when play testing espically in a game with al these many factions. is somethings will just beat others it's how you get a balance without everything being the same, so just play testing the milani against the xeel isn't good, you should also play test each individually against other ships. i'm sure you'll find that the milani will beat ships that the xeel can't.

It's just that the xeel happens to be one of the ships that will beat a milani.

 

[Ripple]

I've played both ships against the majority of races in the game, not just against each other (baring first ones and gaim). The only thing that has beat the Xeel with any non luck moment was e-mines. Sure Pak, Narn, Brakiri, Gaim and ISA (effectively) have access to them... but I hate to be stuck in a rock paper scissors model if it can be avoided.

Ripple

 

[JTL109]

actually I have run a number of play tests on both ships...

Milani starting at fifteen (given the xeel is far more maneuverable and has better initiative it will be his choice NOT the milani's). You do two points of damage average and no crit. Xeel fires back at you and hits 8 points, down goes the shield.
....
Ripple

-------
Rolling 6 dice needing a 5, you average 4 (DD) hits!!!

My math is based on rolling 6 dice needing a 5, and getting
two (2) hits out of six. This means the shields should last
three turns. So on turn four the Milani will take its first
damage of two points, the Vree should (on average) have
taken 6 damage and two crits.

Your dice seem to have a very different average
than mine, so no point in comparisons.

 

[David Anla Shok']

actually I have run a number of play tests on both ships...

Milani starting at fifteen (given the xeel is far more maneuverable and has better initiative it will be his choice NOT the milani's). You do two points of damage average and no crit. Xeel fires back at you and hits 8 points, down goes the shield.
....
Ripple

-------
Rolling 6 dice needing a 5, you average 4 (DD) hits!!!

My math is based on rolling 6 dice needing a 5, and getting
two (2) hits out of six. This means the shields should last
three turns. So on turn four the Milani will take its first
damage of two points, the Vree should (on average) have
taken 6 damage and two crits.

Your dice seem to have a very different average
than mine, so no point in comparisons.

Yeah Ripple. Don't be bringing those "magic" dice with you!

 

[Davesaint]

actually I have run a number of play tests on both ships...

Milani starting at fifteen (given the xeel is far more maneuverable and has better initiative it will be his choice NOT the milani's). You do two points of damage average and no crit. Xeel fires back at you and hits 8 points, down goes the shield.
....
Ripple

-------
Rolling 6 dice needing a 5, you average 4 (DD) hits!!!

My math is based on rolling 6 dice needing a 5, and getting
two (2) hits out of six. This means the shields should last
three turns. So on turn four the Milani will take its first
damage of two points, the Vree should (on average) have
taken 6 damage and two crits.

Your dice seem to have a very different average
than mine, so no point in comparisons.

Except that you are rolling 6 dice looking for 3's as the main gun from the Xeel is SAP DD. Thus the 4 hits per turn on average for 8/8.


Dave

 

[JTL109]

...
Except that you are rolling 6 dice looking for 3's as the main gun from the Xeel is SAP DD. Thus the 4 hits per turn on average for 8/8.
Dave

------
I acknowledge that I am more than slightly brain dead, that MAJOR
fact slipped my mind totally.

 

[Ripple]

Apology accepted...=)

Thanks Dave...

Ripple

 

[Chernobyl]

Well, its nice to know the Vree break more than one rule of the game...being able to freely go less than half speed when no other race can...

Chern

 

[Methos5000]

Well, its nice to know the Vree break more than one rule of the game...being able to freely go less than half speed when no other race can...

Chern

It should be noted however when the Vree are moving SM they can be boarded via SA just like any other ship moving below half speed and the Vree have a low amount of Troops on their ships (against most races, ISA and pak'ma'ra won't be boarding them anytime soon.)