Villians in your runequest games

[Mage]

For my runequest game, I am very powerful Scorpion Man as the Campaigns end all badguy, who is basically amassing a huge chaos invasion.

However, I am starting to feel this is a bit cliche, as Chaos is in warhammer, which rips off Elric and the like. Should I just do an elric campaign instead? Or rather should I play down on this Scorpion Man's Chaotic nature and just make him motivated as a character in a different way.

I am feeling he shold be more a despot ruler of a nation/army/other.

Anyway, I am wondering if any of you guys have problems like this. I like my games to have a lot of depth and mystery, but at the same time I want everything to be defined before I go running a game. Should I just recondier my choice of villian.

In addition to this, if chaos were to be the core of every runequest campagin, why not just make it an Elric game, or is there something I am overlooking or assuming?

I have also noticed that there is a conflict between ordcer and chaos in runequest and elric. Is this purely conicdental or intentional?

 

[gamesmeister]

Warhammer chaos is nothing like Elric chaos, even though I agree Warhammer nicked lots of stuff from lots of games - that's one of the reasons why the warhammer world is so good.

You want to try and give the scorpion man motivations regardless of his chaotic nature - Muriah from Borderlands was always a good example of how to create a background baddie. Of course, Scorpion Men tend to be grunts rather than leaders in a chaos horde, but that's no reason why one can't have risen to a position of power over his peers

 

[weasel_fierce]

I dont see a problem. There's plenty of differences between glorantha and the young kingdoms.

 

[Halfbat]

Like any villain it's worth sketching out a (brief) background for your Scorpion Man to see jus twhat made him able to be a leader when so many scorpion men end up being grunts. Just doing that excercise is likely to flesh him out enough so that he takes on new motivation and makes him interesting.

Maybe he could just be a top Mallia or Chaos cultist with _real_ intentions which go parallel with, but are disguised by, his apparent actions. Or is he a new manifestation of a long-lost Scorpion cult?

And if you're still not happy, make him a pawn of someone more twisted and motivated - a chaos human or a top cultist (one of the back-office cults, for example). Is he really just a front for a Vivamort Priest who's trying to gather together a slave kingdom? Are the people he takes "for food" really just pushed back into the inner ring for a Thanatar head-hunter?

Motivation in a Glorantha-based campaign is key, imho, it's what gives the game life.

 

[Utgardloki]

Not only Runequest and Elric, but many other settings have Chaos as an enemy. In fact, this is about as old as settings can be, since the Babylonian myths start out with a battle between Marduk and Tiamat, who is the embodiment of chaos.

I am not very familiar with the Elric stories. In Glorantha, as I remember it from the 1980s, there was Light, Darkness, and Chaos, as a three-way battle. I don't know if Elric has such a "third force".

Dungeons and Dragons started with a war between Law and Chaos, but soon Gygax added a Good/Evil axis, creating four sides to the eternal battle, with a set of neutrals who could align with any side. Soon this evolved into the nine alignments that characterize the modern D&D game.

In Ravenloft, the nine alignments of D&D exist, but the Good/Evil axis is partially supressed in that no mortal magic can divine the difference between Good and Evil. Therefore detect alignment spells and the like will point out lawful and chaotic allies, but you have to judge whether or not that guy over there is chaotic good or chaotic evil (or whether you really care...)

I wouldn't worry about a Runequest game being too much like an Elric game. All these guys were drinking from the same fountains. If you want to be clear, perhaps a regiment of dark trolls could work as a "third force."

This is D&D, but Mongoose Publishing has printed a Slayer's Guide to Scorpion Men, which probably can give lots of ideas for fleshing out your villian, even if you can not directly use the D20 stuff. Or, you could do what I do and just ask "Why are there scorpion-men in the first place?"

I think scorpion men are cool. Any use of them is to be approved.

 

[Alakoring]

Main problem with Chaos is that few people are willing to negotiate with it. This can limit your plots.

One patch might be to introduce a layer between your protagonists and the villain. Perhaps there's a community that agrees to provide an annual (live) human sacrifice to the scorpionman leader. Of course, their preferred source of sacrifices is the protagonist community. Your protagonists can of course fight, but they can also bargain, or try to convince the intermediates to throw off the scorpionman yoke.

 

[Mage]

@gamesmeister
I am trying to play down his chaotic nature, but I agree motivations are important.
I am toying aruond now, from reading your posts, that maybe he is an avatar of some
terrible long forgotten god about to return. Since I am a cthluhu fan, have the cthulhu
rules and the systems are simliar, well....

@Halfbat
I have given him higher stats, so maybe he just thinks his a badass that got to the top by
being tough, when he is an actual pawn for some other entity in the depths of space, like
a God, as mentioned above. I like the idea of making this guy a pawn...

@Utgardloki
Dark trolls regiment third force......check
That is a good questoin, why tghe bloody hell are scorpion-men there in the first place?
They are cool indeed, but I noticed the hit location chart for them does not list their
pincers or a pincer attack, which is clearly on the artwork in the mosnters book. Has
anyone else noticed this? I made up my own chart.

@Alakoring
I have no problems with my players not wanting to negotiate, he is a bad guy. Sacrifices
sound good, I may use that in a different scenario. I read a blood bowl novel, and a village
gets annoyed at the local chimera/monster/whatever being killed, even though sacrifices need
to be sent to it. When it died they complained there would be a 'power vacuum'.

Thanks for the help dudes, I think I know what I am going to do now. Here are the stats for
him and a modified hit location chart, as well as his equipment. This is only a low level
starting campaing, but nonetheless, here he is:

Vardaxious, Scorpion Man, Prophet of Chaos.

STR 24 D20 Hit Location AP/HP
CON 18 1 Right Hind Leg 3,6
SIZ 21 2 Right Centre Leg 3,6
INT 24 3,4 Right Front Leg 3,6
POW 12 5 Left Hind Leg 3,6
DEX 12 6 Left Centre Leg 3,6
CHA 18 7,8 Left Front Leg 3,6
9,10 Tail 3,6
Combat Actions: 4 11,12 Thorax 3,7
Damage Modifier: D8 13,14 Chest 7,8
Strike Rank: 18 15 Right Pincer 3,6
Move: 7 16 Right Arm 7,6
Magic Points: 12 17 Left Pincer 3,6
Traits: Long Legs, poison, wall walking 18 Left Arm 7,6
20 Head 9,6
Attack: Longspear 96 Pincer 50
Target Shield 40 Scimitar 81
Sting 75 Nomad Bow 42
Armour: Full helm (on head) 6% penalty to skills, AP 6 on head
Scalemail shirt (chest, arms, abdomen) 16% skill penalty, AP 4

Skills: Athletics 50 Resilience 40
Dodge 40 Stealth 40
Perception 25 Throw 47

Weapon Damage, AP, HP Damage Bonus ENC
Longspear d10 damage, 2 AP, 10 HP + d8
Scimitar d6 + 1 damage, 4 AP, 10 HP + d8
Nomad Bow d10 damage, 2 AP, 5 HP + d8
Target Shield d6 damage, 8 AP, 12 HP + d8
Sting 2d6 + poison damage + d8
Pincer 2d6 damage + d8

 

[CthulhuFnord]

One of my old RQ scourcebooks.... I forget which had a Scorpion (wo)Man, a Member of some martial honor cult that had been ritualy devoured by a Queen Scopion then re-born with memories and sanity intact due to Illumination. She then kills and devours the old queen, gives birth to a litter of above average intelligence Scorpion Man; then begins training them in a chaotic variant of her old Warrior cult.

I could see your Scorpion man once a mighty Runelord who vanished while fighting against chaos. Now he and his compainions have re-appeared changed....

Just a thought.

 

[CharlieMonster]

Given that you've chosen as Scorpionman, rather than the traditional queen this also gives you potential play with the PCs and the innocent locals(tm) caught in the crossfire in a war between the rebels (Vardaxious) and the Queen who spawned him, trying to reassert control over her upstart offspring.

 

[Mage]

@CthulhuFnord
That sounds pretty cool. The details of the cult are not too important,
I could make those up. What is this illumination? I never realised that
there were Queen Scorpions that gave birth to these Scorpion people. All
I know about Runequest I have gotten from the Core book and the monsters
book. So he was a runelord who got eaten bu this scorpion queen thing
and reborn as a buff scorpion man eh? That adds a new dimensoin to the game.
I could let the players meet a powerful runelord in a mission, create a big
conflict, and he gets left behined and turns into the bad guy. Awesome.
Please give more details on this if you can.

@CharlieMonster
I take it the queens cannot move around much? That idea sounds cool too.
Heck I could let the players or force them in some way to help the scorpion
man, only for him to turn out being an even bigger threat than the queen...

 

[CthulhuFnord]

Illumination is this weird bit from the previous editions of Runequest. It's kind of an accepting of chaos... or equilibrium with chaos as the natural order. It kinda messes your head up a bit and makes you register as chaotic to certain spells and abilities.

The Scorpion Men have this whole devouring/cannabalistic schickt to their culture. Their Queens are able to ritualy devour other beings and then re-birth them as Scorpion Men. They can do this with most humanoids so you could theroticaly have Broo, Newtling or even Duck Scorpion men.

The quality of a Qeens offspring is direct proportion to her last meal. So a qeen that has been feeding of degenerate Broo is going to have some poor quality offspring. One that has been feasting on GodLearners is going to have some very interesting Children.

Qeens themselves are the Runelords if you will of the Baggog cult, so in addition to being pretty nasty physicaly they are also potent spellcasters.

 

[Mage]

I'd hate to see what would happen if one of those queens every munched down a dragon corpse...
Odd how that life cycle can go. You can be a runelord, and then get eaten and become a scorpion man, and then integraet a dragonewt rune and become a dragonewt upon death...

 

[weasel_fierce]

and another dragonewt upon death... and another...and another

 

[CthulhuFnord]

and another dragonewt upon death... and another...and another

What happens when that Dragonnewt intergrates nine Undead runes?

 

[weasel_fierce]

You become the boss fight of adventuring Orlanthi

 

[Mage]

I have to say its cool that there are a few ways to become potentially immortal in this game.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

and another dragonewt upon death... and another...and another

What happens when that Dragonnewt intergrates nine Undead runes?

I think any Dragonnewt who has integrated that many of any sort of rune has probably cut himself off from the standard dragonnewt cycle of rebirth, so that when he dies he would not be reborn from his egg in the dragonnewt city, but would instead rise as a vampire with the form of a dragonnewt...

Now whether it is possible for this vampire to find some form of redemption and end up being reborn as a dragonnewt once more is another matter altogether!

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I have also noticed that there is a conflict between ordcer and chaos in runequest and elric. Is this purely conicdental or intentional?

I'm not 100% certain it is true (it depends on how you look at it) but if it is, I'm pretty sure it is coincedental.

Elric has a conflict between Chaos (Entropy) and Law (Stability) where both forces are essential to life, for whom utopia would be represented by the cosmic balance (eg Tanelorn) - Some of Moorcock's heroes ostenciably serve/worship Chaos (eg Elric) while others fight it (eg Corum). (This is one big advantage of the "Law/Chaos" axis - the words are not as loaded as "Good/Evil")

Gloranthan Chaos, on the other hand is inimical to life. It is a hole in the fabric of the cosmos leading only to anhillation. It is not directly opposed by any other "force" in the Moorcock/D&D manner (which makes it much closer to Warhammer Chaos - which almost certainly took Glorantha as one of its influences). Many of Glorantha's most anti-chaos cults and cultures would, under a D&D alignment scheme be chaotic (The Orlanthi with their rules of "No one can make you do anything" and "Violence is always an option" or the beserks of Storm Bull, or the Trollish followers of Zorak Zoran who rampaged through the Great Darkness with their undead legions...)

There is, although some deny it, also a cultural element to Chaos in Glorantha - that is while few would deny that Broo are chaotic (the Gods they worship gave birth to the Devil for a start) some cultures do not differentiate that carefully between their enemied (hence the God-learner error in lumping the Trolls in with chaos in "Magic of Glorantha")

For my runequest game, I am very powerful Scorpion Man as the Campaigns end all badguy, who is basically amassing a huge chaos invasion.

However, I am starting to feel this is a bit cliche, as Chaos is in warhammer, which rips off Elric and the like. Should I just do an elric campaign instead? Or rather should I play down on this Scorpion Man's Chaotic nature and just make him motivated as a character in a different way.

I am feeling he shold be more a despot ruler of a nation/army/other.

There is no reason why he can't be both - in fact if he is deliberately massing an army he almost certainly *is* both.

 

[Halfbat]

Many of Glorantha's most anti-chaos cults and cultures would, under a D&D alignment scheme be chaotic (The Orlanthi with their rules of "No one can make you do anything" and "Violence is always an option" or the beserks of Storm Bull, or the Trollish followers of Zorak Zoran who rampaged through the Great Darkness with their undead legions...)

That's a good reminder about the advantages of RQ and the place of "relative" and "absolute" evil - it's difficult to place almost anybody strictly in D&Ds rigid alignment system other than by saying that roughly RQ Chaos = D&D chaotic evil.

In D&D, Storm Bull and Zorak Zoran should be lawful good in that they are implacably opposed to Chaos (chaotic evil). However, they would almost certainly be chaotic in the 9-box system and only in some respects good (they are certainly anti-neutrality!). But Zorak Zoran and Storm Bull follow a strict code of conduct that's almost lawful in its diktat: it's just that the code of conduct, whilst anti-chaos, may not be viewed as "good" for all.

Even Karrg's Sons may well be fairly lawful, and good for troll society, but are obliged to eat a relative once in a while and woul dbe totally opposed to someone else ("good" or not) doing anything that could disrupt troll society...

The real questioning about motives of "the villains", bar all but the purely Chaotic, is one of RQ's strongpoints. It enables rich NPCs who, in some ways, can be pitied (is it a broo's fault that the only way he can live is by following a horrendous lifestyle? Can a broo become an anti-Chaos fighter? Can a scorpion man's honour be trusted?*)

----------------
* Yeah, ok. Probably not.

 

[gamesmeister]

The real questioning about motives of "the villains", bar all but the purely Chaotic, is one of RQ's strongpoints. It enables rich NPCs who, in some ways, can be pitied (is it a broo's fault that the only way he can live is by following a horrendous lifestyle? Can a broo become an anti-Chaos fighter? Can a scorpion man's honour be trusted?*)

----------------
* Yeah, ok. Probably not.

There are several accounts of Broos in Glorantha breaking away from the culture into which they were bred, and following a non-chaotic way of life - the Wild Healer of the Rockwoods was one, as was the Cleansed One of the Zola Fel.

They are of course few and far between, but that's what makes them so notable I guess.