Villians in your runequest games

[Mage]

So Broo are kind of like Nackers/Travellers/Pickeys ni that sense? They cannot help being born into a cruddey soceity but a few rise above it.

Seriously though, I think making the scoprion man a despot/prophet is good. I see the differences between chaos and order in each setting now.

So a Dragonewt who integrates himself with a rune cuts himself off from the cycle. But what if he integrates a dragonewt rune? Also, if this is the case (not arguning, just curious) then why do dragons have so many runes.

 

[Utgardloki]

Many of Glorantha's most anti-chaos cults and cultures would, under a D&D alignment scheme be chaotic (The Orlanthi with their rules of "No one can make you do anything" and "Violence is always an option" or the beserks of Storm Bull, or the Trollish followers of Zorak Zoran who rampaged through the Great Darkness with their undead legions...)

That's a good reminder about the advantages of RQ and the place of "relative" and "absolute" evil - it's difficult to place almost anybody strictly in D&Ds rigid alignment system other than by saying that roughly RQ Chaos = D&D chaotic evil.

In D&D, Storm Bull and Zorak Zoran should be lawful good in that they are implacably opposed to Chaos (chaotic evil). However, they would almost certainly be chaotic in the 9-box system and only in some respects good (they are certainly anti-neutrality!). But Zorak Zoran and Storm Bull follow a strict code of conduct that's almost lawful in its diktat: it's just that the code of conduct, whilst anti-chaos, may not be viewed as "good" for all.

Even Karrg's Sons may well be fairly lawful, and good for troll society, but are obliged to eat a relative once in a while and woul dbe totally opposed to someone else ("good" or not) doing anything that could disrupt troll society...

The real questioning about motives of "the villains", bar all but the purely Chaotic, is one of RQ's strongpoints. It enables rich NPCs who, in some ways, can be pitied (is it a broo's fault that the only way he can live is by following a horrendous lifestyle? Can a broo become an anti-Chaos fighter? Can a scorpion man's honour be trusted?*)

----------------
* Yeah, ok. Probably not.

That reminds my of my homebrew D&D Audor campaign, where there was evil and there was evil. Some deities, like Hel and Gerfion, were evil in the sense that they promoted selfishness at the cost to others. Others, like Niddhogg, were unredeemably evil in that they sought the destruction of the entire multiverse. A cleric of Hel would register on a detect evil spell, but could have a respected position in society. A cleric of Niddhogg would almost certainly be an outlaw high up on the Judge's Guild's "to smack down and destroy" list.

 

[B_Steele]

So a Dragonewt who integrates himself with a rune cuts himself off from the cycle. But what if he integrates a dragonewt rune? Also, if this is the case (not arguning, just curious) then why do dragons have so many runes.

No, I don't think that's what he was saying. What he meant was that a Dragonewt that integrated 9 Undead Runes in order to become a Vampire would fall out of the cycle - not just any old runes.

And I agree...in fact, the idea of a seasoned Dragonewt that has screwed itself into undeath rings of a certain chime of tragedy and power madness that I like in many of my bad guy NPCs...

...this idea has some merit.

Hmm....

8)

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Several of the highest-ranking NPCs in The Clanking City were bad guys in my last game, though several others were patrons and allies.

 

[Vagabond]

Several of the highest-ranking NPCs in The Clanking City were bad guys in my last game, though several others were patrons and allies.

Aaron returns

Ian

 

[Mage]

...in fact, the idea of a seasoned Dragonewt that has screwed itself into undeath rings of a certain chime of tragedy and power madness that I like in many of my bad guy NPCs...

...this idea has some merit.

Hmm....

If you ever put that in a suppliment as a villain send some Kudos my way.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

So a Dragonewt who integrates himself with a rune cuts himself off from the cycle. But what if he integrates a dragonewt rune? Also, if this is the case (not arguning, just curious) then why do dragons have so many runes.

No, I don't think that's what he was saying. What he meant was that a Dragonewt that integrated 9 Undead Runes in order to become a Vampire would fall out of the cycle - not just any old runes.

I'm actually taking a position about half way between the two :wink: A dragonnewt can (probably) use (some) Rune Magic without too severely screwing itself, although I would expect as a general principal they tend not to. I'm not sure exactly where the limit is, nor, I expect does anyone else (certainly not the Dragonnewt, who may think he can safely intigrate just one more wafer-thin rune...) as the sample size is too small to rely on, but I do think that integrating enough runes to change you into something else is pretty certain to be too many to remain a Dragonnewt!

As a side note, Dragonnewts that fall out of the cycle of regeneration can sometimes mutate into dinosaurs - I forget the details, though I think they were largely herbivorous ones - none the less, discovering that the triceratops in front of you is actually a vampire triceratops could be a moment of revalation that not too many people get to brag about in the pub afterwards!


Re: Dragons I don't imagine true dragons integrate runes at all - I don't think they need too (which doesn't mean that they may not be able to act and cast spells as if they had). But meeting true dragons is a very rare occurrence (one might say a Once in a lifetime experience, and generally this is true, because having met one, you don't get the chance to meet another). Glorantha will be reminded of their power when we reach the Dragonkill...

The dragons that you might encounter are just the physical manifestations of the True Dragons dreams, and as such they may very well accumulate and integrate runes, without noticibly disrupting the Sleeping Dragons Karma

And I agree...in fact, the idea of a seasoned Dragonewt that has screwed itself into undeath rings of a certain chime of tragedy and power madness that I like in many of my bad guy NPCs...

...this idea has some merit.

Hmm....

8)

Do let us know if you decide to take this idea further....

 

[WildHealer]

I use Chaos a lot in my Glorantha games - it's one of the deepest and richest aspects of Glorantha, and runs through just about everything.

As Duncan_Disorderly pointed out, it's nothing like Moorcockian Chaos, which in a sense is just as life-promoting as Law, just "disorderly", the promoter of eternal change (more like the Change gods of Tekumel).

Gloranthan Chaos is a raw, seething, undefinable maelstrom which preceded the creation of Glorantha; it's something which sits outside, and would utterly overwhelm and destroy the world if it could "get in". The Gods War was when it did "get in", and it was only the collective action of the Gods which stopped the whole world - and the Gods themselves - from vanishing into that seething, destructive nothingness.

When you have a Baddie who's chaotic, then, it doesn't necessarily follow that he shares any kind of philosophy or motivation with any other chaotic creature. Basically, his very nature, the fibres of his being, are "infected" with this appalling, destructive, force. His body may even mutate, or be in constant pain, or whatever - that's where chaos features come from.

Many chaos creatures exult in their nature, and give themselves up to destruction, insanity, whatever. Most suffer from it in some way - victims of its mutating power. Some - this is where Illumination comes in - get a perspective on their plight and are able to rise above their chaos taint and live life consciously and deliberately. Rumour has it that the Wild Healer, the Chalana Arroy Broo Healer of the Rockwood Mountains, is Illuminated. I couldn't possibly comment... ;-)

Add that to the fact that your baddie is a scorpion man, and therefore potentially a twisted reincarnation of a non-chaotic victim who was devoured by the Scorpion Queen, and you can really go to town with giving him a motivation!

In a nutshell: chaos is a cool and complex part of Glorantha. If you can ever grab hold of copies of Cults of Terror, Lords of Terror, or Dorastor, there's heaps of background there that will give you tons of ideas.

 

[Mage]

A lot of this stuff sounds freakin' awesome, but I assume it is from older supplements. Think mongoose intends on putting this material into new books?

I take it that Dragons and Dragonewts that turn into Dragons are not the same thing? Nor are Dragons from Glorantha conventional dragons?

Vampire Triceratops eh? Sounds pretty cool....

What else...

These illuminated broo sounds pretty cool. What supplement can they be found in?

It sounds like Glorantha chaos is a lot like Warhammer Chaos.

 

[CthulhuFnord]

Most of my info comes from the previous edition of RQ from Avalon Hill. Specificaly Lords of Terror, the cults of Dorastor. The book contains such luminaries as Mistress Devourer a Broo Devotee of Primal Chaos. Who has devoured so many Dark Troll Sorceresses that he has begin to take on a Troll-like characteristic and appearance.

A lot of this stuff sounds freakin' awesome, but I assume it is from older supplements. Think mongoose intends on putting this material into new books?

I take it that Dragons and Dragonewts that turn into Dragons are not the same thing? Nor are Dragons from Glorantha conventional dragons?

Vampire Triceratops eh? Sounds pretty cool....

What else...

These illuminated broo sounds pretty cool. What supplement can they be found in?

It sounds like Glorantha chaos is a lot like Warhammer Chaos.

 

[Mage]

Hmmm.... broo trolls....

I was loking for a reason for a Broo army to fight a troll army with the players being stuck in somewhere about 4 to 7 scenarios into the campaign....

 

[Halfbat]

Mage - a lot fo good cults and background can be found in the Cults Compendium at http://www.tradetalk.de/english/index.php3

 

[CharlieMonster]

I have to say its cool that there are a few ways to become potentially immortal in this game.

True and it's even better that most are pretty unpleasant, in many ways any path to immortality costs you, in a very real way, everything that makes you you. Whether you become and inhuman "Dragon thing", an Undead monster shunned by the very world upon which you walk or a hollow, emotionless Brithini sorceror. I guess that's the nature of compromise.

Still to quote Vila from Blake's Seven (I am soooo showing my age!) "I intend to live forever. Or die trying."

 

[CharlieMonster]

Hmmm.... broo trolls....

I was loking for a reason for a Broo army to fight a troll army with the players being stuck in somewhere about 4 to 7 scenarios into the campaign....

Hang on, Broos and Trolls need a reason to fight? When did that happen? :lol:

 

[CharlieMonster]

I take it that Dragons and Dragonewts that turn into Dragons are not the same thing? Nor are Dragons from Glorantha conventional dragons?

I've always assumed that ultimately Dragonewts that turn into Dragons will become the same thing as true Dragons, eventually. It would probably take thousands of years, but they get there in the end. It's a cop out, but on the one occasion I did write the Apotheosis of a Dragonewt ruler into a campaign, the Dragonewt in question (The Sibilant Voice of Ouroboous from Elder Secrets) left Glorantha for "The Nursery" in the Dragon realm of Godtime. Of course that was when the Hero Plane was a lot less well defined/explored and it was all just one big blurry "someplace else". Getting back to the question, I guess when they first transform from Ruler Dragonewt to Dragon, in power and form they will be comparable to Dream Dragons, and pretty weak ones at that.

That's what I figure anyway. And I'm alway right! Well, nearly always. Okay most of the time. Alright, some of the time. Fine I'm occasionally right, okay? Satisified? Don't know why I bother sometimes, I really don't, mumble, mumble....

 

[Mage]

Thanks for filling me in on Dragons.
As for Broo and trolls needing a reason tifight, there is always someone anal in the player group who likes to know EVERYTHING...

 

[Loz]

and another dragonewt upon death... and another...and another

What happens when that Dragonnewt intergrates nine Undead runes?

It would stand on one leg, blow raspberries, contemplate its lack of a navel, and wonder why it bothered. Death is only of concern to a dragonewt if it is outside the Draconic Path; otherwise it's a minor inconvenience. In fact, dragonewts simply don't have any real concept of death - and can't understand those who do (which makes them even more incomprehensible to humans).

Also, dragonewts, at the crested stage, focus on mastering certain runes so as to better understand Right and Wrong action. Death doesn't, and wouldn't, figure in its plans.

But all that gets revealed in the Dragonewt book (shameless plug)...

 

[Loz]

I guess when they first transform from Ruler Dragonewt to Dragon, in power and form they will be comparable to Dream Dragons, and pretty weak ones at that.

That's what I figure anyway. And I'm alway right! Well, nearly always. Okay most of the time. Alright, some of the time. Fine I'm occasionally right, okay? Satisified? Don't know why I bother sometimes, I really don't, mumble, mumble....

Well, you might be. True dragons are off the scale, power-wise, and outside the cycles of time and the Great Compromise. Even newly ascended True dragons will, I suppose, need a period to adjust. The thing is, though, dragonewts spend many, many lives preparing for dragonhood. By the time they're ready to ascend to true draconic form, they have completed their mundane lifecycle and move into a divine state. I'd suspect that once the final change is complete, they're fully formed dragons with no need for further development. Their only superiors are the Grand Ancestral Dragons and the Cosmic Dragon. Since the former was created to kick-start the world, no True Dragon could ascend to that position, and the latter is as much as primal force (in fact the primal force) as it is a tangible being and a philosophical concept.

Or something.

 

[CarlQ]

But all that gets revealed in the Dragonewt book (shameless plug)...

Which I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on...

Carl Q.

 

[soltakss]

Classic Gloranthan Chaos Plot 1: A ScorpionQueen devours all the local queens, raises an army, becomes really powerful and gets taken out by all the local chaos cults.

Classic Gloranthan Chaos Plot 2: Chaos infiltrates a land/country and seduces several people, slowly turning the local folk and causing subtle changes, creating monsters and carefully raises a monster kingdom. Then the local chaos cults take them out.

Classic Gloranthan Chaos Plot 3: Someone summons a major chaotic demon who quickly takes over a small kingdom, terrorising everyone around with its power and followers. Then the local chaos cults take him out.

Normally the PCs belong to said local chaos cults and have the glory of taking the nasty chatoic out.

Classic plotlines, they never tire and can be recycled in various ways.

Don't think about it too much. Don't over-philosophise. Don't develop a background culture that fills a book. PCs will just come along, kill what needs to be killed and ignore the rest.

It doesn't really matter what the rationale is, PCs and players seldom care.