VaS: Other Eras
- Thread starter Breten
- Start date
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
I worked on an idea for that for a time, but it comes down to one fundamental problem, the system doesn't lend itself to ramming rules.Lowly Uhlan said:
Wulf
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
I have a whole fleet that fits on the palm of my hand... really really teensy weensy triremes. Can't remember who makes them, I bought them at a wargames show.Lowly Uhlan said:Yeah I'd just have to spend money on a fleet of cool ram-prowed ships any way.
Wulf
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
Well, actually I play the boardgame Trireme with some houserules - I never actually use the minis. Trireme is, admittedly, way way out of print, it was when my FLGS unearthed it in his basement... I do have a nice set of rules from some magazine I was given copies of, but I've never played those. There are some free ancients naval game rules around on the web too.Lowly Uhlan said:
Wulf
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Why doesn't this system work for ramming? I'd have thought you modify the special action from ACtA for intentional ramming and modify the resolution rules a bit to reflect the fact your ship is intended for such tomfoolery...
I've looked at different eras. The system works fin back to the 1890s, and forward to the 1950s. Post 1950s works with a bit of massaging. Ironclad era is doable too without too much effort. Going to Age of Sail is harder; after an email chat with Matt I developed an AoS system but the mechanisms needed to cope with the disparate ship types between 10 gun sloops and 144 gun ships of the line meant (IMHO) that a modified combat system would be appropriate (I also developed a revised set of ship stats that would be used if there were o ships biger than 44s present). I agree the system is much less handy for pre-AoS periods.
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
The primary problem is scale. The bigger the mini, the more problem you have actually maneouvering around the table. See the ACtA forum for all sorts of discussions on this! In an ancients system, a lot of ships will get very close indeed...Lord David the Denied said:
Now, this is mitigated by the fact that ships of that era are relatively slow (a recreated Greek Trireme with a trained crew regularly made 14 knots at 'ramming speed') and highly maneouverable (All Stop and Pivot in just over it's own length), so you could increase the 'ground' scale and reduce the time per Turn.
I may have another go at it...
Wulf
Wulf Corbett said:
What were they using, outboard motors?
It's reckoned that most Trieremes managed 11.5 knots, in a 30 second burst. The normal speed was about 7.5 knots, and its reckoned they were not that maneouverable. As once they engaged ramming speed, they had to time it right or run into the path of the target ship or miss it completely. Another problem was fouling oars, when they rammed. Meaning that the ship could become tangled with the opponets Trireme, when its trying to withdraw.
Another thing to point out (IIRC), Triremes also discardedd their sails before battle. They either got folded up and put on a nearby friendly shore, or stowed on the deck!
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
A mixture of rowing club professionals, ocean racing rowers, and massochistic volunteers. The Trireme is, I believe, still registered as a reserve vessel in the Greek Naval Training squadron. These was an excellent documentary on it a few years ago. That 14 Kt. speed was momentary, by the way, not sustained!Reaverman said:
That's about what they found.
Well, depends on speed, of course, but I saw for myself the demonstration of turning in a circle on the spot. Obviously, it's way harder with his oars & debris in the way, and corpses in the water.
Wulf
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
Of course, but it is the required skill to recover from a ram. If you just back-oar, the ship you rammed is still going to be right in front of you; the faster you turn, the quicker you can get going forwards again.Reaverman said:
Wulf
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
So ancient naval warfare would be a whole different ball game. Still cool, though. Do it, Wulf... :wink:
Lord David the Denied said:
It probably would not work too well with the ACTA/VAS rules. Low value hull ships, with minimal ranged weapons, and lots of ramming. Most of the game will be spent trying to get a good ram, and also remember that they are going to be seperate rules for ramming, depending on where you try to ram. Head to Head rams, will more than likely be hard to achieve, due to the Gunwale. Hits on the side will effect crew, and locomotion, and aft will be less effective if the model is moving away.
IMHO, the ACTA/VAS rules would be so overhauled, they would no longer resemble the rules they would be based on.
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
In there like a rat up a drainpipe, thank you.DM said:
Wulf
p.s. that means, yes, please :lol:
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
What? Me? I ain't got no PM... :?
