vladthemad
Mongoose
Vargr gain a bane from sight based tasks in low light conditions due to poor vision. According to the bane description, all characters should suffer a like penalty. Exactly how is this a vargr specific negative?
Vargr
- Thread starter vladthemad
- Start date
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
So a bane roll is now moving from a situational to a hard wired modification? This does not seem to gel with the way they (boon and bane) have been being explained so far. With this being a hard wired all the time thing shouldn't it be a DM, like a -2 for example? Didn't we get told Bane and boon were NOT a die modifier?vladthemad said:
vladthemad
Mongoose
-Daniel- said:
There's quite a few examples of that mechanic being used as a direct rule that I've found in the book. There are a lot of people explaining their interpretation of the rules, but when rules are left vague it leaves too much room for confusion and arguing. I'm pretty sure you and I have both commented numerous times about the book needs to be clear and concise so that even a novice wouldn't have difficulty understanding it.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
2D/Bane/Boon are roll types. Not DMs to rolls. A roll type is chosen according to the individual situation.
A blind person.
In general, should they be rolling everything with a -DM? Should their target number always be a higher Difficulty? Is every roll a Bane roll for them? Once you understand how those three things work, the Vargr is simple to handle.
Explaining every rule to exact detail, so it can be droned through procedurally, will never teach any player how to fish.
A blind person.
In general, should they be rolling everything with a -DM? Should their target number always be a higher Difficulty? Is every roll a Bane roll for them? Once you understand how those three things work, the Vargr is simple to handle.
Explaining every rule to exact detail, so it can be droned through procedurally, will never teach any player how to fish.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Shawn, I can't speak for others so this is just from my point of view.ShawnDriscoll said:
You keep talking like I am stupid. I understand the bane and boon are dice roll "types". Roll three drop one and add the remaining two together. Got it. Gives me a range of 2-12. Got it. Skews the curve one direction or another. Got it. This is not the issue from my point of view.
The issue for me, is that the explanation for when I should use what type of die roll is shifting from day to day. At one point it was to show an odd one time change. The sniper is blinded by the sun, switch to a bane. Made sense. Then another day the explanation includes situations that in the past would have been DMs. Every time Bob sings roll a bane to see the crowd reaction.
No, maybe not. But giving a clear and clean explanation the first time would. Bottom line for me, this is no different than the advantage and disadvantage die rolls from D&D. It is the exact same mechanic wise. The difference is D&D gave a much better explanation of when to use it.ShawnDriscoll said:
If nothing better is going to be done in the rules, trust me when I say, I will live. I will use them when and where I wish with no regard to how the original intent was envisioned. Maybe even ignore them or maybe use them way too much. But it will not matter. Because without a clear rule for me to understand the intent of the original author, I am only left with my own devices.
So thanks for trying as hard as you have tried, but I do not require any more effort. :mrgreen:
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
I have no tact. None. I know you get it. I'm Sorry.-Daniel- said:
I'll look and see if there is an un-written rule in the current PDF we have about +/- DMs. And that is, "players do not create +/- DMs for rolls anymore."
In the past, yes. But in MgT2, no more of that. Players only +/- DMs to a roll when a rule instructs them to do so. This is the hard-wired DMs concept Matthew has introduced into this new core rulebook.
Difficulties can be changed. If picking a lock is average, it can be changed to formidable (depending on the how hard the referee wants the lock to be).
Rolls can be changed. Maybe a Bane should be used, or maybe a 2D should be used (depending on the circumstance).
The DMs we add/subtract from rolls are those listed next to equipment our Travellers might use. Those do not get changed/removed.
If you find a rule in the book that contradicts with the above, let AndrewW know.
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Not to worry, I know you mean well. 8)ShawnDriscoll said:
Now see, that is something clean I can wrap my mind around. Unless told to do so by a specific rule, no more DMs +/-.ShawnDriscoll said:
So I set the difficulty for the task and unless a rule tells me to, I adjust using the Bane or Boon mechanic. Clean and simple. Knowing that, I can now also see when to combine them all.
Sniper wants to hit target, I determine it is average. He has a scope, he gets a DM. The target keeps moving in and out of sight, use a bane.
So DEX bane role with DM for scope target 8+
Sound about right?
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
When Matthew told me about DMs being hard-wired from now on, I thought that would be expounded upon in the rules somewhere. Maybe not well enough? In my lazy referee days, instead of saying a task was harder to do, I'd just add a -DM to someone's roll. That was bad form I had learned from CT. Eventually, MgT1 got me starting to use the Effects more often. And now MgT2 has got me to use difficulties as target numbers instead of the hard-wired 8+. Anyway...-Daniel- said:
Yep.-Daniel- said:
Changed this to straight DMs. Want Bane/Boon to be mostly (wholly?) a referee thing.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
That's how I've been playing them. Not having them hard-wired in the rules so much. Otherwise, it's just another thing players have to look up for in the book every time to see if there is a mandatory Bane/Boon applied or not to their rolls.msprange said:
CosmicGamer
Mongoose
Bane/Boon for Timeframes going faster or slower page 60?msprange said:
CosmicGamer said:
First change I made
DM-1/+1 per step.vladthemad
Mongoose
Well, Daniel has beaten me to the punch here, but I am to the point where I feel I need to be direct as being subtle hasn't seemed to work. Shawn, I too am getting pretty fed up with comments implying we don't understand the rules, that we don't have the experience, so much so that people like Kaelic would rather not contribute and I felt the need to make the thread http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=130&t=112430
Comments like...
...among numerous other examples just creates a toxic environment on the forums.
Comments like...
ShawnDriscoll said:
ShawnDriscoll said:
ShawnDriscoll said:
...among numerous other examples just creates a toxic environment on the forums.
TBH, I feel that the bigger issue with this trait is that bad lighting is such a common circumstance that a blanket Bane (or a blanket -DM) is unnecessarily punitive. It doesn't help that they also seem to be getting the short end of the stick compared to Aslan, who get better versions of the same traits that the Vargr have.
