Value of the Imperial Credit

atpollard

Banded Mongoose
Just looking for feedback and an 'order of magnitude' approximation ...

How much is a Credit in US$, British Pounds, Euros or any other currency of your choice?

It seems like a 1 credit = 1 Dollar/Pound/Euro ratio is close.
(as oposed to 1 credit = 10 Dollar/Pound/Euro
or 1 credit = 100 Dollar/Pound/Euro
or 10 credit = 1 Dollar/Pound/Euro)

I just want to ball-park prices quickly. If it costs millions of dollars in the real world (like a Learjet) then it should cost millions of credits in Traveller. If it costs hundreds of dollars in the real world (like a desk) then it should cost hundreds of credits in Traveller.
 
In my setting 1 (non-Imperial) Credit is approximately 1 Euro or 2 USD,
but many mass produced items are comparatively cheap because they
are produced mainly by robots. However, for example services (e.g. a
haircut, etc.), where humans do the work, have prices like today's real
world prices.
 
In older additions of Traveller the Credit was equal to $3 (1980 rates), at todays exchange rate, it is probably more like CR1 = $5 or maybe a bit more.
 
Given the fluid nature of real world currency I don't attach any direct monetary equivalence to the 'credit'.

Its simply a relative thing - and should be addressed on scales - i.e megacredit purchases (starships) versus personal gear (binoculars).

In the real world - I have seen desks for less than $100 to several thousands of dollars (ignoring antiques and art). Besides 'quality' there is also the question of local cost of living as well as culture.

For instance, in the States, I can still buy a heart-stopping cholesterol, red-meat choking meal for less than $4 bucks in one city, yet where I am today the equivalent meal would cost closer to $15. The cost of say a car or a house though are very similiar.

When pricing Traveller goods just keep it relative - consider tech level required and equivalent goods. Besides the factors of resources and tech required to build an item there is also the factor of how it (weapon or drug) might effect the balance of play. A portable nuke should cost signifantly more (and be less available) than say a starship missle.

When it comes to Traveller - the credit value is fixed for equipment and starships, yet its trade system reflects the fact that the local 'value' of the credit will vary based on the demands, etc. of the goods (though one could more appropriately say the value of the goods varied - the net result is the same).

Adjusting prices based on Tech level (say starships) and other factors (law level) adds complexity to the game. Using the Trade rules (price modifiers) is probably a good compromise.
 
Maybe using a salary comparison will help?

MGT crew Salaries (page 137 of Core Rulebook). I believe this is for one month?
Pilot 6,000
Navigator 5,000
Engineer 4,000
Medic 4,000
Steward 2,000
Real Life:
A non-major airline Captain is 41 years old with 10 years of seniority and makes $70,000 a year.
A non major First Officer is age 35 with 3 years of service and makes $33,000
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_an_airline_pilot_earn

Aerospace engineers: $67,930
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/jobs/how-much-money-does-a-nurse-practitioner-earn

The most recent survey found that the average national salary for NPs is $63,172. If you specialize in an area of ursing you will make approx. $70,000 annually. If you are just a registered nurse it varies from about $30,000 - $50,000
http://www.mahalo.com/answers/jobs/how-much-money-does-a-nurse-practitioner-earn

Median annual earnings of flight attendants were $43,440 in May 2004.
Beginning attendants had median earnings of about $15,552 a year in 2004
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_an_airline_stewardess_earn
 
rust said:
In my setting 1 (non-Imperial) Credit is approximately 1 Euro or 2 USD,
but many mass produced items are comparatively cheap because they
are produced mainly by robots. However, for example services (e.g. a
haircut, etc.), where humans do the work, have prices like today's real
world prices.

Wouldn't have to be a human. Could use an expert system. Or could be an alien.
 
Right off the bat, the credit seems to have changed value with every iteration of the game, thus a fixed conversion is kinda problematic.

In general I treat the credit like the Yen, with 1cr being the smallest denomination. And price tend to be more along the lines of a 100 years ago.

Though more than once I have considered converting to a gold standard for my games, but have never gotten further than the thought...
 
AndrewW said:
You are xenophobic and don't allow aliens?
No, not really. :D

However, only three of the alien species of my setting's universe could
survive under environmental conditions suited for humans. Of these,
one lives too far away to visit the setting's main world, one is too alien
to work well with humans (think pheromone communication, hive mind
and such), and the third one is isolationist and rarely leaves its planet. :(
 
rust said:
However, only three of the alien species of my setting's universe could
survive under environmental conditions suited for humans. Of these,
one lives too far away to visit the setting's main world, one is too alien
to work well with humans (think pheromone communication, hive mind
and such), and the third one is isolationist and rarely leaves its planet. :(

So the character is on a diplomatic mission to the alien's that are far away, during the long during their hair grew and the aliens where so outraged at this mere human displaying such hair they arrest the player and the trial results in the order to forcibly remove the hair with the character ending up bald. (The race has a strict social order and only those of the highest Social Standing are allowed such displays of hair). The usual punishment is death but not wanting to ruffle the diplomatic feathers too much they decided on a different course of corrective action.
 
AndrewW said:
So the character is on a diplomatic mission to the alien's that are far away ...
A nice idea for a plot, but these aliens - the Pashi - have exoskeletons
and no concept of "hair". :D

Except for the humans, my setting has only one other "hairy" species,
and to them the idea to cut their fur would seem ... very alien indeed.
I very much doubt that they would allow a hairdresser onto their pla-
net, provided they would understand what his profession is - and then
they would probably mistake him for a professional torturer. :lol:
 
rust said:
A nice idea for a plot, but these aliens - the Pashi - have exoskeletons
and no concept of "hair". :D

There's a cult that worships hair and seeks to bring it to all species, they perform genetic engineering and seek to introduce the hair gene into these other species in order to save them.

rust said:
Except for the humans, my setting has only one other "hairy" species, and to them the idea to cut their fur would seem ... very alien indeed. I very much doubt that they would allow a hairdresser onto their planet, provided they would understand what his profession is - and then they would probably mistake him for a professional torturer. :lol:

Some members of this species contract a disease that discolors their hair and they can't live with such a disgrace so they seek out some of these human butchers they have heard about in order to learn how to remove it. But they don't entirely trust them so they insist they get to practice on the humans first.
 
Whenever pressed by players, I always stole... er, borrowed Jack Vance's idea that the credit is the standard minimum wage for one standard hour of unskilled labor. His rationale was that because of the wide variations in the availability of most commodities from world to world, and the lag in communications to set values in a maket setting, a universal currency must be based on a common, standard value. The only constant was human toil.

It may not be truly accurate, but it does explain the name "credit".
 
I use 'Imperial Credit' as the monetary standard in the Empire. It has no corresponding value to modern day currencies and is used for interstellar trade.
Any money/goods crossing in or out of the the starport Imperial territory zone must have its prices adjusted to local currencies.
All prices in the book are given in local currencies for the tech it is available at.
This takes care of any price fluctuations due to tech differences.
Thus 'Crimps' are used mainly for carrying wealth in space, as planetside, it gets converted to other forms of money.

10 tech-7 "C" starport credits = 1 Crimp
5 tech-8 "C" starport credits = 1Crimp
*based on the exchange rate table in Striker*

Someday in the future, I may make my own exchange rate methods based more on the model from "Pocket Empires" someday maybe if I'm not distracted by other stuff**

**Platinum Arts Sandbox, phun, my girlfriend, innate laziness, or fooling with other variant ideas like AHL-style boardgame, etc.
 
rust said:
... my setting has only one other "hairy" species,
and to them the idea to cut their fur would seem ... very alien indeed.
I very much doubt that they would allow a hairdresser onto their pla-
net, provided they would understand what his profession is - and then
they would probably mistake him for a professional torturer. :lol:
:lol:

In light of your heinous crimes, I hereby sentence you to a #2 trim...

And if I ever see you in this court again, I'll make add a permanent to boot!

[Ah - the sheer hilarity...]
:P
 
I tend to assume that 1 Cr = US$2.50 (c. 2008) FWIW.

However, there is no way ... NONE ... of realistically valuing the Credit in terms of early 21st century buying power because the absolute and relative value of the cost of production of items will have changed massively over the time period (and tech development period) in question.

For example, during the pre-modern period (right through to the beginnings of the Agricultural Revolution in the Low Countries in the 17th century), agriculture (we're talking Europe here, not Asia) was so inefficient and labour intensive that the relative cost of food was far, far higher than it is today ... the average worker spent in excess of 60% of their weekly income on barely enough food to keep alive ... which is why even minor variations in crop yield were regarded as "famines" ... and the need for food is price inflexible. They couldn't eat any less unless they were prepared to starve (and they did ... that's why these relatively minor crop yield variations were famines after all).

In the modern world? The oughties? I believe, from memory, that food (and we have a much higher calorie diet which consists of lucury foods that the average pre-modern worker could rarely, if ever, have afforded) consist of less than or around 5% of average income.

This is because agricultural technology has made the actual growing of things more efficient (yields have increased from 3 or 4:1 in later Medieval times to in excess of 50:1 in modern times, often far in excess) and this can now be achieved with vastly less labour inputs.

How much does food cost in the Imperium (not restaurant meals, not fast food, but food bought fresh ... or at least unprepared ... at a market or grocer or whatever) at the level of a percentage of disposable income. The costs proposed in the Core Rules are probably too high compared to the income, for prepared food, but if you can buy unprepared food for probably no more than 1-2% (maybe less) of your disposable income, that would be realistic, I would suspect.

Another example -- one of the reasons that DnD has always annoyed me intensely -- metal weapons and armour during the Medieval period and their cost. In the Early Medieval (say 800-1100 AD) the cost was very high relative to income, even of the wealthy, for a number of reasons -- the mines that the Romans had used were mostly worked out (at levels accessible/above groundwater at the tech level the Medievals ... which was basically late Roman ... possessed), fuel (charcoal, from all the virgin forests of the Classical period ... rapidly being cut down for fuel and for land clearance as the Medieval period progressed) was more expensive (and coal wasn't usable until some smart chappie came up with the idea of coke, which wouldn't be for several hundred years more) than it had been during Roman times, and the technology of turning the ore into iron and then of working the iron was primitive, labour intensive, and costly.

Shoeing horses was problematic for most people, and expensive even for the wealthy. Swords were the weapon of the nobility (and often handed down from father to son) because they were extremely expensive (and almost all early medieval daggers are cut down from broken swords ... or broken swords [per myths and legends of the period] were often reforged ... you couldn't afford to waste the metal). Armour was mostly mail, awkwardly heavy and extremely time consuming and labour intensive to make, but using less metal than plate and, therefore, less expensive than plate.

This all changed quite dramatically around the late 11th century, as advances in technology (better bellows, for a start) dramatically reduced the relative cost of processing materials and resulted in less labour intensive production methods becoming viable. The result was a dramatic and rather quick drop in the cost of swords, armour and anything made of metal. Even mining tech improved somewhat (or, more accurately, people were prepared to invest more capital in dewatering mines through the existing labour intensive and time consuming techniques, because slight improvements in agriculture, metalworking and other technology meant there was more capital available) which helped the whole process.

DnD, however, to my eternal disgust, prices weapons based on lethality -- so a hunk of wood (a bow) costs more than a chunk of metal (a sword) whereas the reverse was always the case.

So, how does this effect Traveller? Well, food prices, as noted above, is one way. Manufactured goods will be another ... the longer a technology has been mature the lower the cost it will be even if there have been some improvements in it ...

Which means, for example, that the relaitive (though not absolute) cost of Anti-Grav vehicles should be dramatically reduced at Average Imperial as it is introduced at TL9 (and AI is TL13, IIRC). Flyers might cost 100,000 Cr at TL9, just like Cars cost a relative fortune before Henry Ford ... but, today? Well, Flyers, at TL13 should probably cost only a tenth of that ... 10k Cr (see the Tata Nano for what you can do with this sort of maturity of technology) ... even for those using the current generation, though not cutting edge, of gravitic tech.

And that's all without worrying about Von Neumann factories or nanotech.

That's my .02 centicredits worth, anyway. FWIW 8)

Phil
 
In my setting the main cost factors of most manufactured items are nei-
ther the raw materials nor the labour costs (both fields where robots ha-
ve greatly reduced the costs), what makes things expensive are the blue-
prints and licences for the production of the items and the transport costs
from the industrialized worlds to the remote colonies which were not yet
able to establish their own industries.
 
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